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-   -   Ship's armor (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=37117)

Carlobrand December 26th, 2016 08:34 PM

Ship's armor
 
Okay, as near as I can tell, the maneuver drive doesn't care how massive a ship is. It only cares about volume. Agility cares about mass, but it's absurdly hard to get any decent agility out of a ship. And, armor doesn't affect volume. It seems to grow outward from the basic hull - which should have some impact on the maneuver drive since it cares about volume but doesn't.

So, what exactly keeps a person from slapping as much armor as he can on anything, other than cost? Or am I reading this wrong?

GypsyComet December 26th, 2016 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlobrand (Post 555564)
Okay, as near as I can tell, the maneuver drive doesn't care how massive a ship is. It only cares about volume. Agility cares about mass, but it's absurdly hard to get any decent agility out of a ship. And, armor doesn't affect volume. It seems to grow outward from the basic hull - which should have some impact on the maneuver drive since it cares about volume but doesn't.

So, what exactly keeps a person from slapping as much armor as he can on anything, other than cost? Or am I reading this wrong?

The incredibly thirsty powerplants of MT require a particular design approach just to be able to approach emulation of CT designs. HG2 warships can easily be built to have significant Agility 24/7, while MT designs have to decide how many hours of Agility they can afford.

McPerth December 26th, 2016 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlobrand (Post 555564)
So, what exactly keeps a person from slapping as much armor as he can on anything, other than cost? Or am I reading this wrong?

MT:RM, page 58:

Quote:

Armor Factor: (...) The added value of armor for a ship may not exceed the ship's technological level times five
The problem here resides in the word "added", as it does not specify added to what.

Added to the basic one? to the 40 basic armor needed for a ship (but if so, what about crafts don't needing it)?

infojunky December 27th, 2016 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McPerth (Post 555571)
The problem here resides in the word "added", as it does not specify added to what.

Added to the basic one? to the 40 basic armor needed for a ship (but if so, what about crafts don't needing it)?

In a roundabout way I just encountered the answer to this through the Striker rules for High Guard.

The answer from that route it is total added armor.

Which leads me to the question of What is the maximum amount of armor a vehicle could have...

mike wightman December 27th, 2016 04:25 AM

I would imagine the same limit as for ship hull applies across the board.

Vehicles with starship levels of armour protection are going to be big and slow due to power plant scale efficiency.

Carlobrand December 27th, 2016 04:44 PM

"Armor Factor: (...) The added value of armor for a ship may not exceed the ship's technological level times five"

Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant within that range. If everyone's gonna be a turtle, then it seems to me the only thing stopping them from having massive turtle shells is the cost. At that point, the only counter is mesons.

infojunky December 27th, 2016 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlobrand (Post 555622)
"Armor Factor: (...) The added value of armor for a ship may not exceed the ship's technological level times five"

Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant within that range. If everyone's gonna be a turtle, then it seems to me the only thing stopping them from having massive turtle shells is the cost. At that point, the only counter is mesons.

Actually this conversation has expose a few assumptions that I had made over the years in relation to armor levels.

Consider this if the mandatory ship hull is rated at 40, the maximum of 45 armor at TL9 seems low, as well as the maximum at TL15 being 75 being low as well....

McPerth December 27th, 2016 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infojunky (Post 555623)
Actually this conversation has expose a few assumptions that I had made over the years in relation to armor levels.

Consider this if the mandatory ship hull is rated at 40, the maximum of 45 armor at TL9 seems low, as well as the maximum at TL15 being 75 being low as well....

I agree that with maximum armor 75 at TL 15 (so a -11 DM on damage tables) the paradigm changes a lot from CY:HG, and there are no ships immune to lasers or missiles (even non nuclear ones).

OTOH, if the added armor is over the basic 40, you could reach armor 115 at TL15, and with a -25 DM due to armor on the damage tables, then Carlo is right that only mesons can harm them...

mike wightman December 27th, 2016 06:24 PM

At the risk of being laughed at FSotSI has designs with armour values above 100.

There may be clarification of armour factor in the Digest/MTJournal Q&A and ship design examples.

I'm pretty sure the rule is maximum is 40 + 5xTL (note that some FSotSI designs break even this).

aramis December 27th, 2016 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike wightman (Post 555635)
At the risk of being laughed at FSotSI has designs with armour values above 100.

Last I heard, there was nothing in FS that was mechanically correct...


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