Citizens of the Imperium

Citizens of the Imperium (
-   Classic Traveller (
-   -   Folding Stocks DMs (

infojunky August 25th, 2019 06:15 PM

Folding Stocks DMs
Question about folding stocks, do the DMs in book 1 for the stock when they are folded?

creativehum August 25th, 2019 11:54 PM

I had always assumed the weapons can't be used when the stocks are folded. They would have to be removed, right?

kilemall August 26th, 2019 12:33 AM

Just the opposite, it's when the stock is extended and in use, it's not as stable and firm as a full stock hence the DM.

The folding stock is to help conceal or carry a rifle where being able to hide or stow the weapon matters. I would assume it would be VERY unstable to use with the stock folded.

Shadow Shack August 26th, 2019 03:04 AM

It depends on the folding stock, I've fired shotguns with folding stocks that felt as solid as a standard butt stock and I've fired .22 rifles with flimsy plastic folding stocks that rattled before you even pulled the trigger.

Either way, a rifle-sized firearm without a stock loses significant accuracy when you fire it in pistol-mode...with the upside being it is much more maneuverable in tight quarters than it would be with a stock (fixed/extended or otherwise).

AnotherDilbert August 26th, 2019 06:37 AM

The CONSOLIDATED CT ERRATA, v0.05 (11/15/10) says:

CHARACTERS AND COMBAT (Book 1, 1981 edition):

Page 41, Folding Stocks (omission): When a folding stock is folded, the weapon is less accurate (DM 1 at all ranges). When the stock is extended, there is no effect.

creativehum August 26th, 2019 09:18 AM


kilemall August 26th, 2019 01:09 PM

Huh, does that supercede the DMs on the table?

Along the lines of Shadow's experience, maybe cheap folding stocks have the negative DM at the ranges in the table and expensive ones that are better engineered do not?

whartung August 26th, 2019 01:22 PM


Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert (Post 605883)
When a folding stock is folded, the weapon is less accurate (DM 1 at all ranges). When the stock is extended, there is no effect.


Originally Posted by creativehum (Post 605888)

Well, for me, this is the most intuitive effect.

Without the folding stock extended, you're using the rifle as big, two handed pistol which, while flashy in movies, is simply not as stable as using the stock as intended.

Now, folks can quibble about stock quality and what not, but that's honestly beyond the scope of the game. If a gun is WORSE with the stock extended, why even have it?

Also, there's a difference between a "folding" stock, and an "adjustable" stock.

Moder ARs have adjustable stocks so the user can get a better fit when firing the rifle, notable to adjust for things such as battle armor. But that's different from a folding stock in that most adjustable stocks, once adjusted, are pretty much kept that way.

Folding stocks are used to reduce overall length, notably for storage, but also for concealment.

mike wightman August 26th, 2019 01:26 PM

I apply the folding stock DMs on the combat matrix to a rifle/carbine/smg fitted with a folding stock that is extended.

Thus a folding stock weapon is less accurate at range than a weapon with a fixed stock.

Leaving the stock folded results in the additional blanket -1DM (note that the combat matrix doesn't include it at close/short range).

AnotherDilbert August 26th, 2019 02:19 PM

In my very limited experience a folded stock is handier at very short range, so should get an advantageous DM at least at Close range and perhaps at Short range. On the other hand a folded stock should give a large negative DM at longer ranges.

When the stock is extended I would not give any DM.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:34 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.