Citizens of the Imperium

Citizens of the Imperium (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/index.php)
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-   -   How long can you live on anagathics ? (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=40602)

CaptRet November 16th, 2019 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GamingGlen (Post 608532)
I think people would catch on after awhile.

It's a big Imperium, you could keep moving to other subsectors.

Tiikeri November 16th, 2019 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptRet (Post 608616)
It's a big Imperium, you could keep moving to other subsectors.


Doubtless that many worlds would want the money and power that an immortal would bring. Hey immortal, move here for ten years tax free operation if you start a business here.

Immortals with enough money could found a new colony world outside Imperial borders, hire colonists and some mercenaries to protect them, build a deep meson planetary defense grid, and turn the system into a neutral tax-haven and sanctuary resort.

Tiikeri November 16th, 2019 03:41 PM

Something I've always had IMTU is that the Solomani Rim War was started by the immortal Solomani Movement aristocrats banished to Sol from the Imperial court. It was their money, their power, their influence, their fleets, their armies of loyalists, and their bitter grievances against the Imperium which drove the Solomani Sphere into rebellion and drove many of the Confederation's anti-Vilani policies. They threw their medals and titles over the Imperial fence and started a militaristic government to raise their collective hand against the Emperor who unjustly banished them, and created SolSec to make sure they were never betrayed by the enemy within again.

Their pride and rage blinded them to their lack of preparedness, or perhaps social-political trends forced their hand, but in the end they got what they wanted: an Empire of their own. But at such cost, such cost.

Tiikeri November 16th, 2019 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flykiller (Post 608521)
oh piffle. the eternal rulers would be above such rules, which would be applied only to those who threatened to rise to the level of the eternal rulers. just like all these modern real-world schemes to "tax the rich" and "break the corporate monopolies" - these are used only to tax those rich and break those corporations that are not in the club, while those that are in the club condescendingly carry on as they always have.

Pretty much.

Condottiere November 17th, 2019 01:18 AM

It's a question of a more or less level playing field; heirs to an empire pretty much want to rule an empire, whether they inherit it or with the same, presumably genetic, ambitions build one up themselves; not counting social mobility to reward similarly gifted individuals to rise, and relieve the likely pressure from class conflicts.

If the ultimate ambition of a sophont is immortality, or longevity, in whatever form it takes, individually, through from offsprings, or cultural impact, knowledge of the existence of these possibilities and lack of access is going to cause resentment, and eventual revolution.

CaptRet December 1st, 2019 10:43 AM

And perhaps certain diseases/viruses could limit the effectiveness of anagathics ? Once you get "Rigellian Hepatatis" you can no longer take anagathics or, even worse yet, the cellular effects of the accumulated years come rushing back ?

BlackBat242 December 2nd, 2019 05:33 AM

I've long had multiple variants of "anti-aging medical options" available.

I include those found in the following Sci-Fi authors' universes:

Elizabeth Moon: Familias Regnant universe
Quote:

And what would happen to society if our Cult of Youth Eternal got help from Medicine, with the advent of rejuvenation drugs?
Certainly, rejuv is not the only theme but the exploration of our preoccupation with youth and the hunt for youth eternal is the main thread, and the series offers a close up examination of the consequences that follow.
The later books in the series explore the economic, social, and political ramifications of the building backlog of "heirs" with no prospect of replacing their elders for decades, if not possibly centuries (Rejuv is a relatively recent development - only around for ~40-50 years or so at the start of the series, if I remember correctly.

Rejuv is an expensive and intensive medical procedure, involving administration of multiple doses of several specialized drugs in a clinical setting over a period of time (a few months is implied).
This "resets" the body, basically rewinding it to a physical state of ~20 years old (or older, if the recipient wishes - some politicians prefer to retain a "mature" appearance, to indicate their accumulated "wisdom").
The recipient then ages normally, until the next time the individual's whim/finances see another round of Rejuv being undertaken.
It is stated that some wealthy people get Rejuv every decade or so, simply to avoid "looking old".
Unless a bad batch of drugs turns up (a significant plot-point in several of the novels) it is implied that there should be no limit to how many times one can be "Rejuved".


David Weber: Honorverse.
Prolong is the tech here - a genetic treatment done in adulthood (1st gen Prolong), and in kids (2nd-gen Prolong), that slows down your aging process, roughly doubling (if I remember correctly) your life-span after receiving the treatment. That part is important, as we see below.

1st-gen maybe gives you 50% or a bit more longer life, but all of that extra is after you are already an adult. You are "doubling" only 50%-70% of your life-span.
2nd-gen, as it starts much earlier in your development, slows your physical growth into an adult as well (mental development seems to not be slowed as much, whether this means that the mind will continue to age faster than the body is never addressed) - which means that those years are also doubled (or more than doubled, as is sometimes implied).
There were hints that it might be even more effective, in the not-yet-administered 3rd-gen (at least the books don't mention any 3rd-gen recipients, that I've run across).

Note that the "prolong generation" is referring to more than just the tech side (first-developed, refined and improved, etc) - it is also referring to whether you are the first in your immediate bloodline to receive the treatment.
With no recipients among your biological parents, you must wait until your body has stabilized in adulthood before receiving treatment.
If your parents (at least one, preferably both) received the treatment before conceiving you, then you can receive treatment before puberty!


Note that both of these are more-costly and more-involved than simply retiring to your stateroom to shoot up a batch of anagathics (usually derived from some alien plant or animal in Sci-Fi - see Stroon in Norstrilia by Cordwainer Smith) you bought on the black market.
Therefore, they remained basically plot-hooks of the theoretical kind in the games I've run, rather than being used by any PCs.

Condottiere December 2nd, 2019 05:49 AM

Depends on how you define the Fountain of Youth, physical integrity, or preservation of the spark that makes us unique, the consciousness, and the ability to transfer it to another medium or physical body.

boomslang December 29th, 2019 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robject (Post 608516)
This could be a pretty good (and dark?) setting (but it's not the OTU).

It's a non-trivial part of MTU, however.

The thing is, the older these Methusaloids get, the more risk-averse they tend to become; they only care about securing an unending supply of their fix while avoiding absolutely anything that might pose a threat to their own continued existence. Unless, of course, they become aggressively suicidal out of crushing boredom.

Which makes even the still-sane ones their own worst enemies, most times, since other Prolonged Individuals make great sources of anagathics to take control of and add to one's own pipeline. Security through redundancy.

This eventually drives any oligarchy into a winner-takes-all autocracy, and at any technologically-sophisticated tech level, such a state will become impossible to maintain by overt military, economic, or political force.

So you are are looking a deeply-buried secret society of obscenely wealthy, mutually-paranoid kingmakers who value economic stability above literally anything and everything else, and trust absolutely no one, especially their peers. Who are also extreme physical cowards to the point of making the average Hiver look like a vaping, skydiving, fugu-eating, Russian-Roulette-playing adrenaline-junkie thrillseeker.

Pretty dark, but they do make fantastic patrons...

Magnus von Thornwood December 31st, 2019 05:48 PM

Uhhhhh...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by boomslang (Post 609618)
It's a non-trivial part of MTU, however.

The thing is, the older these Methusaloids get, the more risk-averse they tend to become; they only care about securing an unending supply of their fix while avoiding absolutely anything that might pose a threat to their own continued existence. Unless, of course, they become aggressively suicidal out of crushing boredom.

Which makes even the still-sane ones their own worst enemies, most times, since other Prolonged Individuals make great sources of anagathics to take control of and add to one's own pipeline. Security through redundancy.

This eventually drives any oligarchy into a winner-takes-all autocracy, and at any technologically-sophisticated tech level, such a state will become impossible to maintain by overt military, economic, or political force.

So you are are looking a deeply-buried secret society of obscenely wealthy, mutually-paranoid kingmakers who value economic stability above literally anything and everything else, and trust absolutely no one, especially their peers. Who are also extreme physical cowards to the point of making the average Hiver look like a vaping, skydiving, fugu-eating, Russian-Roulette-playing adrenaline-junkie thrillseeker.

Pretty dark, but they do make fantastic patrons...

Depends, me I read a lot of William Gibson and he's taught me they pay well and open many doors but it's like working for a capricious godling.


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