Citizens of the Imperium

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-   -   Pixie (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=38747)

Blue Ghost February 6th, 2018 05:05 PM

Pixie
 
Travellerwiki lists Pixie as having tens-of-thousands for a population; a respectable town sized pop with a type A facility.

Travellermap states the population is in the tens; I'm guessing 10, 20, 30, or something like that.

I'm wondering which is correct.

atpollard February 6th, 2018 05:10 PM

Does EITHER have to be correct? :rofl:

tjoneslo February 6th, 2018 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Ghost (Post 582244)
Travellerwiki lists Pixie as having tens-of-thousands for a population; a respectable town sized pop with a type A facility.

Travellermap states the population is in the tens; I'm guessing 10, 20, 30, or something like that.

I'm wondering which is correct.

Both the TravellerMap and the Wiki have Pixie with a population of 90 people. The text at the top of the wiki article says "a population of fewer than 10,000".

The problem with a population this small is almost any event (good or bad) can have a significant effect on the population of the planet. So what the last survey says may be wrong.

Blue Ghost February 6th, 2018 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atpollard (Post 582246)
Does EITHER have to be correct? :rofl:

It's the Harmony, California of space. :D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmony,_California

timerover51 February 6th, 2018 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjoneslo (Post 582255)
Both the TravellerMap and the Wiki have Pixie with a population of 90 people. The text at the top of the wiki article says "a population of fewer than 10,000".

The problem with a population this small is almost any event (good or bad) can have a significant effect on the population of the planet. So what the last survey says may be wrong.

A population of 90 and a Class A starport does not compute in any way, shape, or form, as some of them will be below the age of 12. With that size of a population, the loss of one person is significant, while the loss of several is a catastrophe. I assume that a Class A facility would be comparable to O'Hare Airport in Chicago, with a work force in the thousands. A facility with a work force in the thousands is going to require a supporting population on the order of a 100,000 or so as a minimum, with a million being more reasonable.

atpollard February 7th, 2018 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timerover51 (Post 582267)
A population of 90 and a Class A starport does not compute in any way, shape, or form, as some of them will be below the age of 12. With that size of a population, the loss of one person is significant, while the loss of several is a catastrophe. I assume that a Class A facility would be comparable to O'Hare Airport in Chicago, with a work force in the thousands. A facility with a work force in the thousands is going to require a supporting population on the order of a 100,000 or so as a minimum, with a million being more reasonable.

Since I love the "devil's advocate" role, let me propose three options:

Option 1:
Population of 90 leaves 60% (54 people) as a workforce. Each of those 54 workers can average routine weekly maintenance on 1 advanced 'maintenance robot' in 4 hours [2 robots per shift, 10 robots per week]. So 54 of 90 'people' maintain 540 'maintenance robots'. Each maintenance robot does no useful starport work except to maintain the more menial 'work robots'. Since a robot does not sleep, each maintenance robot is able to complete the work of 4 shifts of human workers in a week so maintaining 1 work robot per 4 hours means that the 540 maintenance robots can support a workforce of 21,600 work robots.

Option 2:
Pixie is a very tiny Starport operated by someone who likes to convert old Scout Ships into Prospecting ships. Since this requires all of the facilities of a Class A Starport (the ability to remove and install Jump Drives, modify hulls, refined fuel for the ships delivering parts), it checked all of the boxes on the IISS sheet and got rated as Class A. Sure, they could theoretically build a ship, but they don't. However, if your Jump Drive needs repair, they do have the facilities to handle the task (and up to 54 workers to help with it).

Option 3:
The Pixie Highport is a large Class A Starport operated by someone else (like an overseas military base on a small pacific island) with a large population that is not part of Pixie (proper). The 90 native residents of Pixie have nothing to do with the Starport and simply lease the space to whoever does operate it and imports the labor.

[None of these are how I handle such random rolls IMTU. I just like to come up with options.]

tjoneslo February 7th, 2018 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timerover51 (Post 582267)
A population of 90 and a Class A starport does not compute in any way, shape, or form, as some of them will be below the age of 12. With that size of a population, the loss of one person is significant, while the loss of several is a catastrophe. I assume that a Class A facility would be comparable to O'Hare Airport in Chicago, with a work force in the thousands. A facility with a work force in the thousands is going to require a supporting population on the order of a 100,000 or so as a minimum, with a million being more reasonable.

GURPS Traveller: Starports splits the type (A, B, etc) from the size of of the port. So Pixie has a Class A port, with all the amenities including refined fuel, major refits, and construction of new starships, but employs exactly 0 people. I think the capacity of the port is one free trader sized ship at a time. Turn around time for cargo handling and refueling is usually pretty good. Unless you manage to land during one of the several birthday celebrations, or funerals, or other important local events.

Gray Lensman February 7th, 2018 11:38 AM

Although Pixie itself is a small vacuum planet with a tiny population of hard-luck belters, its large starport provides services along the Xboat route to Kinorb (Spinward Marches 2202) and Aramis (Spinward Marches 3110).

This world contains an archaeological site with artifacts suspected to be from the now-vanished Ancients

Pixie, as a member world of the Third Imperium, holds the estate of an Imperial knight, a member of the Imperial Nobility charged with overseeing the world. This world has a nearby Imperial Naval Base, capable of handling warships.

In orbit around the gas giant is an ex-Kinunir class Vanguard Cruiser converted to a prison, known as Imperial Prison Station 17.

All from the wiki. Enough justification (and then some) for a Class A Starport.

I have to believe the UWP only counts the small population of hard luck Belters and not the Starport and Naval Base.

timerover51 February 7th, 2018 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atpollard (Post 582274)
Since I love the "devil's advocate" role, let me propose three options:

Option 1:
Population of 90 leaves 60% (54 people) as a workforce. Each of those 54 workers can average routine weekly maintenance on 1 advanced 'maintenance robot' in 4 hours [2 robots per shift, 10 robots per week]. So 54 of 90 'people' maintain 540 'maintenance robots'. Each maintenance robot does no useful starport work except to maintain the more menial 'work robots'. Since a robot does not sleep, each maintenance robot is able to complete the work of 4 shifts of human workers in a week so maintaining 1 work robot per 4 hours means that the 540 maintenance robots can support a workforce of 21,600 work robots.

I have no comment on this.

Quote:

Option 2:
Pixie is a very tiny Starport operated by someone who likes to convert old Scout Ships into Prospecting ships. Since this requires all of the facilities of a Class A Starport (the ability to remove and install Jump Drives, modify hulls, refined fuel for the ships delivering parts), it checked all of the boxes on the IISS sheet and got rated as Class A. Sure, they could theoretically build a ship, but they don't. However, if your Jump Drive needs repair, they do have the facilities to handle the task (and up to 54 workers to help with it).
If that is the case, then why do Class B starports with large populations exist?

Quote:

Option 3:
The Pixie Highport is a large Class A Starport operated by someone else (like an overseas military base on a small pacific island) with a large population that is not part of Pixie (proper). The 90 native residents of Pixie have nothing to do with the Starport and simply lease the space to whoever does operate it and imports the labor.
In Spinward Marches, published in 1979, Pixie is listed as having a Navy Base. I would assume that is the starport. Given the description of a 1000 mile diameter airless and waterless (?) planetoid, I assume that it is orbiting the Gas Giant of the system. Based on this, clearly the Navy Base population is not included in the population exponent.

Quote:

[None of these are how I handle such random rolls IMTU. I just like to come up with options.]
Examples like this is why I first generate the world characteristics (size, atmosphere, water) first, then look at population likely, and only then consider the star port. The law level and government type depend on how I view the planet, with the Tech Level in the same category. What do I need the planet for?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjoneslo (Post 582275)
GURPS Traveller: Starports splits the type (A, B, etc) from the size of of the port. So Pixie has a Class A port, with all the amenities including refined fuel, major refits, and construction of new starships, but employs exactly 0 people. I think the capacity of the port is one free trader sized ship at a time. Turn around time for cargo handling and refueling is usually pretty good. Unless you manage to land during one of the several birthday celebrations, or funerals, or other important local events.

I do not and will not have GURPS Traveller. I will ask if it has no people and only a population of 90, who built it?

Blue Ghost February 7th, 2018 12:17 PM

I guess my real conundrum is that the UPP / UWP lists "tens of thousands", but Wiki says "10s". So...

I seem to recall one of the MegaTraveller computer games had lots of people roaming the surface when you exited the port building. So ...


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