Citizens of the Imperium

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-   -   QREBS (overview) (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=33335)

Ackehece September 27th, 2014 12:54 PM

QREBS (overview)
 
QREBS:

BASIC CONCEPTS
Pg. 190 Overview of the concept of QREBS

Pg. 193 on price and in everyday usage if the QREBS is zero (undefined) it has not effect in game

Pg. 196 Scene and QREBS – can your day get any worse!

Pg. 499/500 Tech level Stage Effects – how do they affect QREBS and price mod

Pg. 500 QREBS values on table are mods to QREBS rolls / certified standards not absolute values

Pg. 498
“The differences between tech
levels reflect QREBS (and even QREBS can produce extremely
good results on lower tech level equipment).
The advantage of higher TL Stage Effects is a small
increase in performance and significant QREBS benefits”

Pg. 500
“The spectrum of Stage Effects from Experimental
through Ultimate may be applied to these other Base Tech
Levels. It remains to be determined (by QREBS, for example)
if, under some specific circumstances, an Ultimate … is superior to a Standard
….”

Pg. 500 QREBS value +x can lead to max value + x for QREBS value

:) (yes this has been repeated in multiple ways... had to wrap my brain around it)



QREBS AND HOW IT AFFECTS VALUE:

Pg. 53 – Value and the Worth of things references QREBS directly but does not put price mods on items. It does deal with rarity (supply) which can be mapped (by referee) to quality in an indirect manner (see next section).
:)Thought: I would map Ubiquitous (-5) to R=-5 Q=0(NA). Typical (0) as a certified object is Q=0(NA), R=0 (for a 1x price multiplier) and Very Rare (+5) to Q=A and/or R=+5. That would mean a typical object would have a 1x price mod a Very Rare object a 2x multiplier (or 4x if both Q and R are both high value) and Ubiquitous would be .5x cost and disposable

Pg.83 – something man portable with a perfect QREBS score that is brand new will sell for 600000cr (QREBS A55-55) even 1 point less in this will sell for this amount.
Something with at least 39 points into it (Q=A is worth 11, RES=+5 is worth 11, B=-5 is worth 11 (1 point per increase (range Q0-C, R-5+5 E-5+5 B+5-5 S-5+5) ) can be sold at 150,000cr +10000cr per point increase.
Masterpiece collections increase 1% a year as a collectible (subject to flux so at least 6years old before guaranteed increase in value.)
NOTE: a great craftsman can push QREBS beyond NORMAL limits, C66-686is possible for a QREBS score! Price accordingly!

Pg. 154 – determination of QREBS and Value covered.

Pg.195 – Usage reduces QREBS (and thus price) QREBS values determine aging effects for objects
:)Thought: Can a refurbishment reset the working age?
:)Thought: Used items had R and other values decremented – thus dropping the cost.

Pg. 247 QREBS example for purchasing a used firearm (significant negative mods means value drops)

Pg.251-253 QREBS mods built into Gunmaker – immediate effect on price built into the charts

Pg. 242 Start of QREBS effecting weapons

Pg.255 selection of option requires QREBS mod

Pg.260 Blademaker has moderate immediate effect mods for Price
QREBS is more related to burden for unless stage effects applied

Pg.264 Armor maker is ordinarily assumed to have a QREBS of 00000, See staging for Further QREBS modifications (including price mods related to staging)

Pg. 271 ArmorMaker QREBS – table comments – price mods built in

Pg. 273 Armor QREBS - tied into drawbacks
Options have no effective cost – but they impose drawbacks – that is that it is a zero sum for price

Pg. 282 Vehicle Maker Armor Extension
“The Armor values
for the Vehicle are shown with an Armor Extension. Because
the Armor is integral to the Vehicle, note that values
for Cost, Mass, and QREBS are not required.”

:)Thought:I read the above as “the Referee sets the value!”

Pg. 285 QREBS 00000 standard – no effect
“A Vehicle with only the imposed QREBS elements
is considered As Issued. It is typical of the Vehicle as
used.”

Pg. 314 specific values based on tech stage level effects

Pg. 599 Value Enhancements -specifically added to an object. QREBS affects workmanship, quality and performance

Pg.599 any object can be modified by QREBS

:alpha:
****** IMPORTANT CONCEPTS HERE**********
Pg. 600 CERTIFIED – this is where QREBS 00000 is set. All items as a base are inspected and adjusted to meet a minimum standard of usability – an imposed standard on manufacturer to assure minimum level. Base level cost
:)Thought: I assume that with Q=0 that it is just a place holder for certified status and the actual value is significantly higher. Stuff that falls apart in within 10 minutes of usage would generally be worthless.

Pg. 193 neutral QREBS value adds nothing or takes away nothing

Pg. 194 primarily concerned with devices and machinery. Can be applied to Plants, Animals, Artwork, Books, Drama, and even Music

:)Thought: how does reliability relate to arts?

Pg. 194 Multicomponent Objects (large sized) treat each major subsystem separately

Staging effects create most of the change in value for the various

Maker QREB effects on components affect the price during construction

Craftsman has a means of calculating value for high quality construction
************************************************** ***
:omega:

Burden:

Pg.61 – C1 Strength Load and burden
B increases or decreases Load

Pg.66 makes burden directly map to Kilograms
Each point increases or decreases by 1 kilo to a minimum of 1, no maximum

Pg. 521 qreBs is related to deck squares for large non man portable objects (min = 1)
Therefore in large objects they require a minimum size of 1 deck square, for man portable items they have a minimum mass of 1 Kilo – not directly relatable.

quality and reliability interaction
If you assign a QREB rating to an object it will have a repair period that counts down.
QREBs Quality and Period table Pg.194
Period is the time between Reliability Downgrades
On a average Qrebs=5 the period would be six months
that means every 6 months qRebs would reduce by 1
If a reliability check fails then (check flux for mishaps )- referee can determine what bad side effect (san reduction or structure deterioration occurs) if qRebs=-5 the deterioration will occur rapidly

Reliability check is a daily roll and an object has a potential failure if the Reliability is less than or equal to flux...

you can stave off reliability downgrades - IROAN Pg. 191 (hope you have a good tech on board!)
you can deep store hardware in quality storage and this will prevent physical decay( non useage) - but the minds that are not positronic or electronic can not be stored as they continue to deteriorate Pg. 362

I would argue that the more the reliability check is failed by the greater the chance the mishap is BAD
I also think that qRebs failure should/can lead to reduction of the other QrEbS stats (up to the referee)
*with the exception of R which already ticks down and B as size does not randomly change*

**Capitalize the letters in QREBS that are being referenced as per the book (so Qrebs means quality, QrEbS means it only affects QES)**

Afterthoughts:
(THIS IS ESPECIALLY FOR HANS-the mental illnesses are what keep robots out of common usage!)

Pg. 573 Robot Illness – related to QREBS but not directly stated, Brain conditioning and structure require a QREBS rating to trigger robot illness effect as they are based on age and wear which QREBS addresses. see quality and reliability above.

Ackehece September 28th, 2014 01:59 AM

updated overview with quality and reliability interaction
 
following has been added to this thread:

If you assign a QREB rating to a bot it will have a repair period that counts down.
QREBs Quality and Period table Pg.194
Period is the time between Reliability Downgrades
On average Qrebs=5 the period would be six months
that means every 6 months qRebs would reduce by 1
If a reliability check fails then (check flux for mishaps )- referee can determine what bad side effect (san reduction or structure deterioration occurs) if qRebs=-5 the deterioration will occur rapidly

Reliability check is a daily roll and an object has a potential failure if the Reliability is less than or equal to flux...

you can stave off reliability downgrades - IROAN Pg. 191 (hope you have a good tech on board!)
you can deep store hardware in quality storage and this will prevent physical decay( non useage) - but the minds that are not positronic or electronic can not be stored as they continue to deteriorate Pg. 362





************
Reliability check is a daily roll and an object has a potential failure if the Reliability is less than or equal to flux...

I would argue that the more the reliability check is failed by the greater the chance the mishap is BAD
I also think that qRebs failure should/can lead to reduction of the other QrEbS stats (up to the referee)
*with the exception of R which already ticks down and B as size does not randomly change*


**Capitalize the letters in QREBS that are being referenced as per the book (so Qrebs means quality, QrEbS means it only affects QES)**

mike wightman September 28th, 2014 07:32 AM

I think the QREBS system is another one of those "unintended consequences" waiting to radically change the setting.

Ackehece September 28th, 2014 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike wightman (Post 491361)
I think the QREBS system is another one of those "unintended consequences" waiting to radically change the setting.

I tend to think it's one of the more brilliant parts of T5, and yes it might radically change it, for the better. Not required for anything but for special things it is worth rolling up.

Supplement Four September 28th, 2014 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike wightman (Post 491361)
I think the QREBS system is another one of those "unintended consequences" waiting to radically change the setting.

Without starting a flame war, and you elaborate on your opinion here?

Ulsyus October 3rd, 2014 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike wightman (Post 491361)
I think the QREBS system is another one of those "unintended consequences" waiting to radically change the setting.

Why so?

It seems to me that it adds detail that doesn't have to be used, but can be, and if it is then there's a lot more colour for each item you've got a QREBS listing on. In our campaign so far I've just used the Burden and Quality components. There rest isn't going anywhere, and I can use them if the scenario demands

timerover51 October 3rd, 2014 04:32 PM

One of the things that I found to be extremely irritating in Traveller 5 was the continued use of acronyms where I had to continually look up what they stood for.

So, perhaps for those of the forum who have not purchased the Big Black Elephant, could you spell out what QREBS stands for?

robject October 3rd, 2014 05:40 PM

QREBS strikes me as a rationalization or replacement of TNE's "Maintenance Points" rule.

whulorigan October 3rd, 2014 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timerover51 (Post 491758)
One of the things that I found to be extremely irritating in Traveller 5 was the continued use of acronyms where I had to continually look up what they stood for.

So, perhaps for those of the forum who have not purchased the Big Black Elephant, could you spell out what QREBS stands for?

T5 p. 190:

Quote:

Q Quality (QUA) = 2D -2
R Reliability (REL) = Flux
E Ease-Of-Use (EOU) = Flux
B Burden (BUR)= Flux
S Safety (SAF)= Flux

Ackehece October 3rd, 2014 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robject (Post 491762)
QREBS strikes me as a rationalization or replacement of TNE's "Maintenance Points" rule.

very much so ... it creates a coherent foundation for the maintenance and pricing within the rules.
;)


as for QREBS and more acronyms... QREBS is forgiveable :)
Quality - How good is this thing made
Reliabilty - How long will it stay working
Ease of Use - Is it iOS or Unix (notice ease of use does not mean better or more powerful :) )
Bulk/Burden - how much room does it take up or how heavy is it
Safety - will it burn you for lifting it up or will it be a soft marshmallow of safety :)


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