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Kilgs September 29th, 2018 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike wightman (Post 593517)
There is one element to Windhooks story I find contrived.

Door opens - assassin enters - guard kills assassin - announcement that Strephon has been assassinated - Lucan immediately improvises the plan to calmly kill everyone in the room - Windhook escapes while Lucan is murdering the others. Can anyone else see a flaw in this version of events?

It's a stretch but not insurmountable. From Strephon's diary we know that Lucan was always the pale half of the brothers. Maybe he nursed resentment and concocted fanciful ideas for years which never were acted on since he was a coward/loved his brother/insert any reason.

Then, all of a sudden, the opportunity falls in his lap... he might move really fast with his lizard brain and then realize he needs to come up with a plan quickly. It's a poor plan and allows Windhoek to escape but keeps folks running around just enough to get Dulinor off Capital and get him on the Throne.

================
On a sidenote, why not BE Windhoek in the adventure? That's a campaign worth investing time in... Windhoek and his friends trying to escape/bring the truth to others. Maybe change the course of the Rebellion itself.

Windhoek manages to convince a Marine sergeant who promises to escort him to safety to tell his story but things go pear-shaped and they need to hop on a (free trader/Scout) to escape. Now we have agents, marines and ship crew as PC's.
-Where does he run to? A sympathetic Noble?
-Is the reason the Moot is convened before dismantling? The noble calls for the Moot... Lucan discovers the noble has Windhoek to give testimony. Loyalist Marines attack noble's estate, seat-of-the-pants escape from estate/system.
-Where to next?
-Eventually he'll hear of Margaret's faction and try to reach it as she represents the "stock" Imperium...

Regardless, I like it.

Whipsnade September 29th, 2018 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robject (Post 593515)
This is good stuff, Whip. I'm going to collate these notes into a document and post it.


Glad I was able to help. I hope you get some use out of it.

I figure Windhoek has at least a day or two before the "capture/kill" order goes out.

That first few days are going to be a horror show. Dulinor has left, but no one knows if he's running back to Dlan or just left to rendezvous with a nearby battlefleet. Lucan has been spirited away to an undisclosed location by S-3 and the other protective organizations which failed. The Ilelish Guard still needs to be needs to be dug out of the Palace. The Imperial ministries, offices, and organizations are acting on reflex according contingency plans. The Moot has most likely dispersed due to safety concerns for it's members. (Note to the Usual Suspects, dispersed and not dissolved.)

It's going to be a few days before any search on Capital for Windhoek begins or any orders are sent out. After all, Lucan's first words as emperor as S-3 hustles him into an APC isn't going to be "There's this guy named Windhoek we need to find..."

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike wightman (Post 593517)
There is one element to Windhooks story I find contrived.


I find the entire Assassination and Rebellion contrived.

Quote:

Can anyone else see a flaw in this version of events?
Plenty. Given Lucan's previous and especially later behavior, however, I don't find it out of character.

My belief suspenders snapped when I was told that the plot which had subverted an entire Domain and whose tentacles reached into the Palace itself sent one man armed with the pistol to kill two men know to be guards by a third man armed with a submachinegun. Casting Windhoek in the role of the second assassin fails the sniff test when we remember that Windhoek himself is unarmed. That meant would mean the plotters sent two men with one gun to kill two men guarded by a third man armed with a submachinegun.

Replacing one wholly implausible story with another wholly implausible story isn't an improvement. ;)

Regardless of how poorly planned the supposed plot to kill the Princes was, Lucan's version of events is full of more holes than Windhoek's. Imprey, the sap tapped to kill the Princes, burst into the room and trips on a loose rug. As he falls, his pistol goes off and the bullet just happens to kill the guard. Windhoek then tries strangling Lucan and Lucan knocks Windhoek out.

A trained INI officer with the element of surprise is knocked by a royal wastrel whose chief form of exercise is throwing temper tantrums. Sure. Pull the other one, it has bells on it.

Not only does Lucan knock Windhoek out, he does so fast enough to then hide under a bed and avoid being shot by Imprey. While Imprey stalks Varian and Elia, Lucan crawls out, grabs the submachinegun, "sprays" Imprey killing him, and then runs out of the room without checking on Varian or Elia.

Which version wants you to swallow more codswallop?

In the end, the metagame reason is the controlling one. For the desired Endless Rebellion, Lucan's "appeal" needs to be "crippled" in some manner and "crippled" from the first.

mike wightman September 29th, 2018 01:20 PM

I don't think either story is the 'truth' of the matter.
Lucan's story is full of holes, Windhook's story castes Lucan as an evil genius psychopath, who is capable of instantly improvising a way to take the throne while full of adrenalin from an attempted assassination and is likewise implausible.

I can either conclude the author of this little plot wasn't a very good author or that we are supposed to notice the holes and fill the gaps. But then the entire plotline was dropped in favour of starting in 1121 with the first five years of warfare already a done deal, so I guess it is a moot point :)

By the way, there is no variant spelling of Windhook in my version of Rebellion Sourcebook - do you know where it comes from?

Whipsnade September 29th, 2018 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike wightman (Post 593523)
I don't think either story is the 'truth' of the matter.


It definitely is a 57th Century version of Rashomon.

Quote:

Lucan's story is full of holes, Windhook's story castes Lucan as an evil genius psychopath...
When you read his story - his entire story - you come to a realization that Windhook's story does not do that.

Quote:

... who is capable of instantly improvising a way to take the throne while full of adrenalin from an attempted assassination and is likewise implausible.
That's where everyone gets it wrong. Lucan doesn't twirl his mustache, flair his cape, make sure his black stovepipe hat is in place, point a finger in the air, declaim "AHA! Now is my chance to ascend to the Throne!", and start shooting.

Lucan didn't kill Varian in order to become emperor. Lucan killed Varian in order to kill Varian. At the instant he began pulling the trigger, Lucan wasn't even thinking of the Throne. He was thinking about removing witnesses and killing his hated older brother.

What were the twins doing while Windhoek and Imprey waited in the corridor? They were screaming at each other, just as they always did. What were they screaming about? Varian had "stolen" another one of Lucan's girlfriends, just as he always did. That girlfriend was right there in the room with them, just like so many times before.

Lucan killed Varian because of Elia, because of the few seconds made him the younger brother, and because of a lifetime of sleights both real and imagined. Only seconds after screaming at each other, Dulinor going postal in the Throne live on TV, a dead assassin, and a loose pistol gave Lucan the opportunity he'd dreamed of his entire life: Killing Varian.

Since childhood, Lucan had run through dozens of daydreams in varying levels of detail in which his older brother died, was killed, or was removed in some way. Here and now, in their shared apartment, was one of those daydreams served up on a platter.

Lucan killed Varian to kill Varian and not to clear his path to the Throne.

Quote:

I can either conclude the author of this little plot wasn't a very good author or that we are supposed to notice the holes and fill the gaps.
It was probably a little of both.

Quote:

But then the entire plotline was dropped in favour of starting in 1121 with the first five years of warfare already a done deal, so I guess it is a moot point :)
They dropped a lot of promising stuff.

Quote:

By the way, there is no variant spelling of Windhook in my version of Rebellion Sourcebook - do you know where it comes from?
It's spelled both ways in my copy and within sentences of each other. I chose "Windhoek" because it's less common and because, as wargame designers and autodidact historians, GDW would have known that Windhoek is the capital of Namibia.

robject September 29th, 2018 10:49 PM

I've attached a Casual Encounter draft document in the initial post of this thread (sorry Mike, you're first so your post gets the summary doc).


Still gotta iron out the details and make the text usable.

Suggestions welcome. I didn't propagate the widening time error window, so the dates will probably need adjusting.


Windhoek's Run could be viewed as three separate legs:

1. Escape. From 132-1116 to 139-1116, ending in Fornol.

2. Rift Run. He reaches the Rift sometime in the second half of 1117, and takes seven jumps to cross it, to somewhere near Tonnurad (Trojan Reach 0417). Arrival in the Trojan Reach in the first half of 1118.

3. Spinward Run. The Spinward Marches are reached sometime in mid-1118, crosses the border to Foreven in late 1118, and arrives in Far Frontiers after mid-1119.

mike wightman September 30th, 2018 05:10 AM

Lol. no probs Rob :)

Can we do a quick fact check on Windhook vs Windhoek? I have two copies of Rebellion sourcebook and neither has the typo, and the electronic version from FFE doesn't have it either.

If it is a typo in a print run that Mr. Whipsnade has then the spelling should probably be standardised to Windhook - although I have to admit to liking the variant spelling as insetting appropriate :) (if it came to a vote I would be in favour of Windoek).

[edit]nice work Rob[edit]

mike wightman September 30th, 2018 05:18 AM

It strikes me that there are a lot of ways a party of PCs could end up interacting with Windhoek:

1- take this data package to worlds as you trade and upload it to the local interwebs
2- mysterious bod seeking passage to next world/working passage to a more distant world
(a free trader engaging in spec trade is best since it is most likely to be jumping randomly).
3- I don't want to type this one but here goes - the PCs intervene in a beating/kidnap attempt

add to list

There is also the interesting follow up of weeks later Intel goons from one side or the other turn up to ask questions.

Ohh - wonder if Windhoek has access to a certain J Bland...

McPerth September 30th, 2018 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robject (Post 593543)
I've attached a Casual Encounter draft document in the initial post of this thread (sorry Mike, you're first so your post gets the summary doc).

(...).

Suggestions welcome. I didn't propagate the widening time error window, so the dates will probably need adjusting.

Just one suggestion, and it's about Windhoeck skills: I'd delete the steward one, and make him more techincally oriented. Not that I rule out he has it, in fact I'd expect him to have it or liaison, having been working in the Imperial Palace, but because he would hid it, not wanting to work face to face with passengers that might recognize him.

In fact, I'd give him some engineering skill (probably he was from IN accademy, where he obtained it, if MT, or from any other source if another game system is used), and playing a shy engineer role, with the goal to have as few contact as he can with the random passengers, out of fear of being recognized.

robject September 30th, 2018 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike wightman (Post 593565)
Can we do a quick fact check on Windhook vs Windhoek?

Thanks Mike.

My electronic copy of RS is 1988, print run 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9. And it's all Windhook.

I, too, prefer Windhoek, however.


Quote:

Originally Posted by McPerth (Post 593573)
Just one suggestion, and it's about Windhoeck skills: I'd delete the steward skill [and would] give him some engineering skill [...] and playing a shy engineer role, with the goal to have as few contact as he can with the random passengers, out of fear of being recognized.

That's a good point; he'd not want to interact at all if possible. On the other hand, is there a perverse rule that says hiding out in the open can work as often as not?


DRAFT updated with Mike's scenario suggestions and skill adjustments per McPerth.

mike wightman September 30th, 2018 08:06 PM

I.m planning on adding more scenario suggestions...


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