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-   -   New drive type - the D-drive (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=35349)

dalthor November 24th, 2015 07:56 PM

New drive type - the D-drive
 
For those that follow science, dark matter is the latest thing around. Supposedly, the universe is full of dark matter, and it is everywhere. It is the "missing mass" that makes the universe work the way it does.

IMTU I've created a dark-matter drive. It allows maneuver capability with no limitations on distance from a gravity source - an M-drive without the 1000D limit.

Code:

  Drive        TL=  12  13  14  15  16
D  Dark Matter        1  3  5  7  9

At TL-12 it is capable of 1g acceleration, increasing by two gees per TL, to a maximum of 9g's at TL-16. It is essentially a thruster with no exhaust.

It masses two dtons per 100 tons of hull size, or 2 * H / 100 ton, giving 1g acceleration. Multiple that by drive rating to get final displacement. For example, to get 2g acceleration on a Beowulf (200 ton hull) would give a drive size of 8 (rating 2 * 2 * 200 / 100) = 800/100 = 8) tons.

Cost is MCr1 per ton.

Fuel is included in operations fuel, and the drive has a backup Fusion+ module that could power the drive for up to 12 days at 1g acceleration.

----

Thoughts?

aramis November 24th, 2015 11:27 PM

If it works in Jump, too, then I can kill your planet with my D2 scout ship without any warning to you whatsoever.
If not, then it can crack the planet with a slim chance of warning by people seeing it working before I jump out...

dalthor November 26th, 2015 10:10 AM

Ah, yes, the infamous near-c rocks thing again. Sigh.

If somebody is that desperate to be that destructive, they don't need this to do it. A G-drive or M-drive will do the same thing, just needs a lot more time to do it. There are a myriad other ways that anybody with half a mind could come up with as well.

For what it is worth, I wonder how many ideas out there don't get posted because people see some of these responses, and decide not to bother.

Anyway...

The D-drive is a maneuver drive, not usable in jump space. Like anything else, use it, abuse it, or ignore it.

For those that celebrate it, Happy Thanksgiving!

dalthor November 26th, 2015 04:26 PM

Best analogy I have for D-drive is a jet ski. I was going to state that in the original post, but decided just to posit the drive for the initial idea.

We current earthlings currently can't detect DM at all, but the math says it exists.

Dark matter (DM) is the water, the p-plant and drive are the engine and impeller.

Drive sucks in DM, spits it out the back. DM doesn't have a physical effect on our space. Conservation of mass and all that is intact, Sir Isaac isn't rolling over in his tomb. Kinda like the space-borne equivalent of the magneto-hydrodynamic drive...

Simple enough to limit the max input/output ratio and top out the speed, maybe relative to the TL of the drive.

Anyway, some constructive feedback is appreciated.

Magnus von Thornwood November 26th, 2015 05:54 PM

Well....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dalthor (Post 523458)
Best analogy I have for D-drive is a jet ski. I was going to state that in the original post, but decided just to posit the drive for the initial idea.

We current earthlings currently can't detect DM at all, but the math says it exists.

Dark matter (DM) is the water, the p-plant and drive are the engine and impeller.

Drive sucks in DM, spits it out the back. DM doesn't have a physical effect on our space. Conservation of mass and all that is intact, Sir Isaac isn't rolling over in his tomb. Kinda like the space-borne equivalent of the magneto-hydrodynamic drive...

Simple enough to limit the max input/output ratio and top out the speed, maybe relative to the TL of the drive.

Anyway, some constructive feedback is appreciated.

Honestly, I just figured that Dark Matter was what the M-Drive pushed against when it hit the 1% efficiency range.

And we are starting to get a better idea about how it works and we might detect it. By TL-C or so it should be figured out and by TL-F ought to be old hat. Given that I guess this could work. Assuming we can harness DM and then what other stuff can we do with it? As far we can tell, I mean as I understand it DM is pretty massive for all its undetectabilty. Maybe it is gravitons.

Nope, got no real problems with it other than what would players do with access to DM and how does it affect MATU?

aramis November 26th, 2015 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalthor (Post 523458)
Best analogy I have for D-drive is a jet ski. I was going to state that in the original post, but decided just to posit the drive for the initial idea.

We current earthlings currently can't detect DM at all, but the math says it exists.

Dark matter (DM) is the water, the p-plant and drive are the engine and impeller.

Drive sucks in DM, spits it out the back. DM doesn't have a physical effect on our space. Conservation of mass and all that is intact, Sir Isaac isn't rolling over in his tomb. Kinda like the space-borne equivalent of the magneto-hydrodynamic drive...

Simple enough to limit the max input/output ratio and top out the speed, maybe relative to the TL of the drive.

Anyway, some constructive feedback is appreciated.

Pointing out the near-C scoutship issue IS constructive criticism. If it throws dark matter as reaction mass, it has a practical maximum speed based upon how fast it can throw the dark matter. I don't remember the details of that calculation; that's a case to ask Nyrath.

ThornEel November 26th, 2015 07:29 PM

This sounds like a good replacement to the Dean drive: functionally, it's pretty much the same, but a coherent extension of the Manoeuvre drive tech where you simply push on a bigger, foggier mass.
I wonder if it hits 1% efficiency when away from the galactic dark matter halo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramis (Post 523474)
it has a practical maximum speed based upon how fast it can throw the dark matter

That's actually one of the two ways I could think of to dampen the near-c rock problem with the varied gravity drives: limit their ability to push against fast-moving masses, at least to accelerate in the same direction. Maybe slowing down shouldn't be less efficient, though - it could even be more efficient, which would help with emergency braking (and emergency braking means interesting events).

The other one was the reverse, using a fixed installation to push against fast-approaching small masses, keeping itself fixed by pushing against the local mass of, say, a planet or a star. A specialized pressor beam, if you will.
That way, worlds could easily have cheap, redundant anti-relativistic attack stations. Ideally, they would serve other purposes like launch assistance, giving antigrav to local, unpowered vehicles on the grid...
In-universe to make them more profitable, for worldbuilding to have them in as much places as possible, and you don't have to actually change how the world itself by adding it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnus von Thornwood (Post 523471)
And we are starting to get a better idea about how it works and we might detect it. By TL-C or so it should be figured out and by TL-F ought to be old hat. Given that I guess this could work. Assuming we can harness DM and then what other stuff can we do with it? As far we can tell, I mean as I understand it DM is pretty massive for all its undetectabilty.

Some believable (but still unconfirmed) results I read about supposedly detected those particles annihilating each-other, as ambient gamma radiation from the galactic core. If those get confirmed by further observations, it would help confirm the model with massive particles interacting only with each-other.
That would mean that, yes, you could use them as a power source: collect them with a fancy grav manipulator and ram them into each-other until gamma ray goodness comes out.
You'd pull them from a large volume, given the density of dark matter, though total conversion works in your favour. (A devious referee may imagine an interdiction engine collecting all the dark matter in the region to strand enemy drives...)

Or we could keep the drive low on details, just in case working theory changes again. Which is actually what the Collector sounds like, put that way.

McPerth November 26th, 2015 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalthor (Post 523458)
Dark matter (DM) is the water, the p-plant and drive are the engine and impeller.

Drive sucks in DM, spits it out the back. DM doesn't have a physical effect on our space. Conservation of mass and all that is intact, Sir Isaac isn't rolling over in his tomb. Kinda like the space-borne equivalent of the magneto-hydrodynamic drive...

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramis (Post 523474)
If it throws dark matter as reaction mass, it has a practical maximum speed based upon how fast it can throw the dark matter.

And we have the 1889 ether propeller...

In fact, the theory about the dark matter always sounded to me as retourning to the ether theories, just changing the name (sure you've guessed I'm not a physics expert), and the explanation about this engine made me remeber the ones about the ether propeller

dalthor November 5th, 2016 09:56 PM

Was looking over this thread, working on a ship for MTU, and starting thinking about relative speed and damage, with regard to the whole near-c rock thing.

Ignoring globes, Traveller has no shield technology, per se. Assuming a ship successfully accelerated to 10% of light speed, what kind of damage would occur if it hit

a) The remnants of a sand caster cloud?

b) A marble-sized rock?

c) A fist sized rock?

Hmmmm...would size even matter in this instance? I can't begin to imagine the energy generated by that impact.

Help?

flykiller November 5th, 2016 10:09 PM

Quote:

Assuming a ship successfully accelerated to 10% of light speed, what kind of damage would occur if it hit

a) The remnants of a sand caster cloud?
a sand-grain-sized hole continuously through the ship, with a sand-grain-sized plasma jet out the last hole.

Quote:

b) A marble-sized rock?
a marble-sized hole continuously through the ship, with a marble-sized plasma jet out the last hole.


Quote:

c) A fist sized rock?
a fist-sized hole continuously through the ship, with a fist-sized plasma jet out the last hole.


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