Citizens of the Imperium

Citizens of the Imperium (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/index.php)
-   Mongoose Traveller (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/forumdisplay.php?f=122)
-   -   AHL deckplans officially retconned? (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=36562)

Condottiere September 9th, 2016 02:35 PM

Just ignore the new blueprints.

But engineering decks have to be recalculated, to fit in with the new formulas.

whartung September 9th, 2016 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike wightman (Post 548838)
Yes it IS A FRIKKIN' GAME, but a game with a lot of history and iconic subject matter. The new AHL deckplans smack of being a lazy attempt by someone not familiar at all with extant canon just producing any old tosh to fill a page.

And, frankly, it's not just "a game".

It started as a game.

But it is, in fact, a fictional universe within which games are emplaced.

Thus the passion for canon.

Canon is not, and never really has been, about mechanics. That's what a game is, mechanics.

It's about the Imperium, the galaxy it portrays, and the personalities within that galaxy.

And the AHL is one of those characters. It's been a central participant in several core story lines within canon.

So, yea, it is egregious for the current "keepers of canon" to retcon such fundamental characters so lazily and whimsically. it's not a different point of view, not a minor adjustment, it's a dramatic change.

And it's unnecessary.

But the true crime is it simply shows the lack of respect the current keepers have for canon. 40 years of development. It presents an attitude and character that I don't care for.

A simple statement "when someone shows you who they are, believe them."

They've shown us, and this is not the first example of such.

flg September 9th, 2016 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whartung (Post 548843)
And, frankly, it's not just "a game".

It started as a game.

And it still is a game. Good grief, this really is not in the slightest bit important. I think some people are taking this rather more seriously than it deserves.

So big whoop, some deckplans changed in a book. If you prefer the old ones, keep using them - nobody's stopping you. If you don't, then use the new ones. It's not going to shatter the universe or anything if you do.

McPerth September 9th, 2016 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynard (Post 548825)
Jeez people.

I liked the old Frontier cruiser when the boxed game came out. It was an experiment in ship design by Traveller, a huge ship with maps for every 80+ decks. You just need to make some decks multiples needing the same map. It worked. It was unique but, for addition in any other book with deck plans, it was a horror to display. Suddenly just showing the representative decks was page count waster.

I always found the game quite playable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reynard (Post 548836)
I accept the new deck arraignment, however, if I were to run a game involving some special need or just wanted to use the old design, I would have no issue switching to it because I have the sheets. I could also use the new decks and not blink too.

Frankly, I'd have a problem on playing on those belly sitting maps, as I already told:

Quote:

Originally Posted by McPerth (Post 546884)
From the purely gamer's (and probably game designer's too) POV:

The AHL is 84 deck long.

Assuming 3 m/deck, that makes it about 252 m long

At the scale the game is (1.5 m per 1/2" square), it eould need an about 84 inches (about 2.1 m) map (a litle more, as it must have some margin). And still you probably would need more than a single deck map in a game...

How many of us have a table where it could be played it at home? Not me, for sure...


This aside, the shape of the plans shown by Mongoose don't match with the original AHL.

And the Spinal mount should be all the spine long, not just less than half the ship long. That's what spinals are, using all the length of the ship to accelerate the particles.

This is not, in any way (not only the internal layout) our Azhanti. it's another cruiser. As I already said, should they not have used the Azhanti name will have avoided the rage of the old grognards, while will have no effect (neither good nor bad) on newbees...

Vargas September 9th, 2016 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike wightman (Post 548839)
x-boat tender springs to mind immediately, there may be others.

X-boats themselves.

mike wightman September 9th, 2016 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flg (Post 548848)
And it still is a game. Good grief, this really is not in the slightest bit important.

It is important to me, and to many others who have posted about it.

If MgT wants to set it's game in the Third Imperium then the least the authors could do is learn about the Third Imperium
Quote:

I think some people are taking this rather more seriously than it deserves.
It's an internet forum frequented by people who are very passionate about the game and setting.

flg September 9th, 2016 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike wightman (Post 548854)
If MgT wants to set it's game in the Third Imperium then the least the authors could do is learn about the Third Imperium

And yet this material was published with the approval of Marc Miller, was it not? So perhaps you should be asking him why he approved something that was different to what came before? (he's changing things wholesale himself in T5 after all.)

Quote:

It's an internet forum frequented by people who are very passionate about the game and setting.
Yes, and perhaps some would be better off stepping back a little and getting some perspective here. This is a ship plan in a book, it's not like the entire setting has been turned upside down (again, many of the changes in T5 are far greater than this and yet people don't complain because it's OK for MWM to change everything but not anybody else to make far smaller changes?).

At worst, just think of it as the plans being different in the MGT universe. Big deal.

Nightwind1 September 9th, 2016 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flg (Post 548856)
And yet this material was published with the approval of Marc Miller, was it not? So perhaps you should be asking him why he approved something that was different to what came before? (he's changing things wholesale himself in T5 after all.)



Yes, and perhaps some would be better off stepping back a little and getting some perspective here. This is a ship plan in a book, it's not like the entire setting has been turned upside down (again, many of the changes in T5 are far greater than this and yet people don't complain because it's OK for MWM to change everything but not anybody else to make far smaller changes?).

At worst, just think of it as the plans being different in the MGT universe. Big deal.

Or, y'know, since you really don't give a flying fig, you don't need to join our little bitch-fest.

flg September 9th, 2016 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightwind1 (Post 548859)
Or, y'know, since you really don't give a flying fig, you don't need to join our little bitch-fest.

So you'd rather rant about it than accept the possibility that MWM decided to accept this change, which is why it was published? (and apparently DonM was involved in some of these changes too, if the mongoose boards are to be believed).

Excuse me for trying to inject a little logic, reason, and perspective into all the wailing and gnashing of teeth here, I guess.

aramis September 9th, 2016 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flg (Post 548860)
So you'd rather rant about it than accept the possibility that MWM decided to accept this change, which is why it was published? (and apparently DonM was involved in some of these changes too, if the mongoose boards are to be believed).

Excuse me for trying to inject a little logic, reason, and perspective into all the wailing and gnashing of teeth here, I guess.

Don did NOT review deck plans; they weren't done before he died.

Further Mongoose doesn't actually get everything reviewed. By labelling it a general product, rather than OTU specific, Mongoose avoids the whole approvals process.

Which Don and I commiserated about well before the MGT2 project got rolling at Mongoose.

The only canonical for the OTU materials from Mongoose are those that are labeled "Third Imperium" label. I fear Rob and I will wind up having to go through those with a fine tooth comb...


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.