Citizens of the Imperium

Citizens of the Imperium (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/index.php)
-   In My Traveller Universe (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/forumdisplay.php?f=19)
-   -   Low Berths (revised) (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=39653)

AnotherDilbert December 16th, 2018 12:18 AM

If Low Berths are quite safe and much cheaper than other options, they should be the standard option for interstellar travel, both commercially and for troops.


A bit boring for the travellers with no passengers in space, but very convenient for passengers: just go to sleep on Rhylanor, wake up on Regina a few weeks later, without having to spend a lot of time waiting in space.


The trade roll should be modified to generate more low passengers and less high and mid. Standard ships, such as Free Traders, would need to skip most of the staterooms and add a lot of Low Berths instead.

AnotherDilbert December 16th, 2018 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoki (Post 596612)
They pay x hundred to thousand credits per berth for the specialist, but then they are absolved of any liability for injury as well as ensuring there's a near 100% rate of survival.


Already considered:
Quote:

Originally Posted by LBB2, p5
Refunds or civil liability if a low passenger fails to survive the trip are not allowed.


wbuthod December 16th, 2018 02:55 PM

CTL-F "DUMAREST": 0 results
 
Low berths in the SF sources were for livestock. It was an act of financial desperation to offer to pay a captain to travel in them. And I can see obvious advantages for using low berths for livestock. I've hauled livestock in-game, but it was always live, and usually the source of grief or a complication to an existing situation.

I wonder why one doesn't just take a bunch of "Low" passengers, give them all fast drug plus a mild time-release sedative so that they can sleep for the duration. Rack'em, stack'em, and pack'em in bunks or tubes far more cramped than steerage or even low berth, nearly to the point of palletizing them. Very low life support load per pax. A two-week trip becomes a 6 hour power-nap.

At the destination, you unpack them, and administer fast drug antidote, then something to reverse the sedative. Revive them in a warm, reassuring and comfy, but clinical-looking space, then hand them their travel bag and show them the door to the main concourse. Heck, you could have them "decelerated, sedated and crated" by a service provider at the starport, and deliver them to another one at the destination port for revival.

Downsides: passengers with a resistance to either fast drug, or the sedative. Max time in the crate is 60 days, and If you don't have resources to fed or house them, there will be hard decisions to be made. Palletized lowpax would be a priority target for pirates that don't mind a little slavery profit.

kilemall December 16th, 2018 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbuthod (Post 596626)
Low berths in the SF sources were for livestock. It was an act of financial desperation to offer to pay a captain to travel in them. And I can see obvious advantages for using low berths for livestock. I've hauled livestock in-game, but it was always live, and usually the source of grief or a complication to an existing situation.

I wonder why one doesn't just take a bunch of "Low" passengers, give them all fast drug plus a mild time-release sedative so that they can sleep for the duration. Rack'em, stack'em, and pack'em in bunks or tubes far more cramped than steerage or even low berth, nearly to the point of palletizing them. Very low life support load per pax. A two-week trip becomes a 6 hour power-nap.

At the destination, you unpack them, and administer fast drug antidote, then something to reverse the sedative. Revive them in a warm, reassuring and comfy, but clinical-looking space, then hand them their travel bag and show them the door to the main concourse. Heck, you could have them "decelerated, sedated and crated" by a service provider at the starport, and deliver them to another one at the destination port for revival.

Downsides: passengers with a resistance to either fast drug, or the sedative. Max time in the crate is 60 days, and If you don't have resources to fed or house them, there will be hard decisions to be made. Palletized lowpax would be a priority target for pirates that don't mind a little slavery profit.


Got that covered too, call it 'warm passage'. Big option for colonial ships not wanting to pay high end life support costs even if they own the ship.


The problem commercially is that even with the 60:1 ratio you still have basic sweating and bodily waste going on, so they are going to go to the bathroom at least once even during a week long trip. Somebody has to diaper and clean that up, quite a bit more unpleasant work then a mid passage passenger.


Not to mention the passenger has to be secured, I mean strapped down, because they cannot possibly react to any 'bumps' or even vector changes without smashing into a wall or floor without being able to avoid or cushion the fall.


Then there is the scenario where the ship falls under attack or gets into some other trouble and you need them to be at normal speed and suited up.


Except under very controlled trust situations like fellow colonists, I don't see it as commercially viable.

McPerth December 16th, 2018 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbuthod (Post 596626)
I wonder why one doesn't just take a bunch of "Low" passengers, give them all fast drug plus a mild time-release sedative so that they can sleep for the duration. Rack'em, stack'em, and pack'em in bunks or tubes far more cramped than steerage or even low berth, nearly to the point of palletizing them. Very low life support load per pax. A two-week trip becomes a 6 hour power-nap.

At the destination, you unpack them, and administer fast drug antidote, then something to reverse the sedative. Revive them in a warm, reassuring and comfy, but clinical-looking space, then hand them their travel bag and show them the door to the main concourse. Heck, you could have them "decelerated, sedated and crated" by a service provider at the starport, and deliver them to another one at the destination port for revival.

Downsides: passengers with a resistance to either fast drug, or the sedative. Max time in the crate is 60 days, and If you don't have resources to fed or house them, there will be hard decisions to be made. Palletized lowpax would be a priority target for pirates that don't mind a little slavery profit.

Albeit for MT (but I guess also aplicable to CT, as their basics are quite close), TD#21 has an article about low berths that distinguishes among chill berths (TL 9-11), that really freeze the passenger, and the low berth (TL12+), that mainly keeps him in this hibernation state by the use of drugs (moslty fast drug/antidote), more or less as you say.

AnotherDilbert December 16th, 2018 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilemall (Post 596639)
The problem commercially is that even with the 60:1 ratio you still have basic sweating and bodily waste going on, so they are going to go to the bathroom at least once even during a week long trip. Somebody has to diaper and clean that up, quite a bit more unpleasant work then a mid passage passenger.

Fast Drug does not knock people out, they will still experience the time, at about 3 h per jump.

People will resent being stacked in boxes or kept in diapers.

We already have a reasonable model for keeping people for a few hour of travel:https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qim...8897cbc16f14-c

Of course, allowing this will make interstellar travel vastly cheaper. Packing in people ~10 per Dt (like current cattle class) a ticket would cost a few hundred, mostly for the Fast drug.

Major B December 16th, 2018 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert (Post 596613)
A bit boring for the travellers with no passengers in space, but very convenient for passengers: just go to sleep on Rhylanor, wake up on Regina a few weeks later, without having to spend a lot of time waiting in space.

Not so convenient though when you go to sleep on Rhylanor and instead of Regina, you wake up on Jae Tellona and are told you must work in the mines until you've earned enough to pay for your unfreezing.

wbuthod December 16th, 2018 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert (Post 596645)
Fast Drug does not knock people out, they will still experience the time, at about 3 h per jump.

People will resent being stacked in boxes or kept in diapers.

Well, I added the idea of a sedative, just this side of a medically induced coma, for that reason. It's three hours (I figure six for transfer, etc.) that they sleep through the journey. You can't resent what you can't perceive.

I see the protocol as: 1) Sedate. 2) Fast Drug. 3) 'Box'. 4) Transport. 5) Unbox. 6) Fast Antidote. 7) Reverse sedation.

Pax show up at their appointed check-in time, hand the steward their baggage, lie down on a couch, the steward administers a couple of injections or med patches. They then awaken on a similar couch in a different system two weeks later.

wbuthod December 16th, 2018 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major B (Post 596654)
Not so convenient though when you go to sleep on Rhylanor and instead of Regina, you wake up on Jae Tellona and are told you must work in the mines until you've earned enough to pay for your unfreezing.

It's a bonanza for slavers. I'd mail my itinerary and shipper tracking number to my insurance company, and some of my better armed pals.

wbuthod December 16th, 2018 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilemall (Post 596639)
even with the 60:1 ratio you still have basic sweating and bodily waste going on, so they are going to go to the bathroom at least once even during a week long trip.

This is six hours of sedated sleep from their perspective. I've been able to sleep twice that without soiling myself since I was a child. And I managed to go through a medically induced coma for two days without... no, I was catheterized for that, so I probably would have pissed myself. But I still on 1:1 time w/out fast drug.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:33 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.