Citizens of the Imperium

Citizens of the Imperium (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/index.php)
-   Imperial Interstellar Scout Service (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/forumdisplay.php?f=17)
-   -   Gravity greater than M-drive potential (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=36107)

Whipsnade May 9th, 2016 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramis (Post 538348)
Not quite. TNE's CG...

The details are irrelevant to the point being made, Wil.

CT strongly implied unseen and unnamed technologies which allowed 1g ships to take off in +1 gee gravity fields.

MT by GDW continued that model leaving the answer up to the referee.

DGP, a third party publisher writing for MT, wrote that M-drives can be "overclocked" up to 400% in SSOM, a product just like the Judge's Guild output, is merely approved for use with Traveller.

TNE then decided to answer the questions by providing specific equipment.

So, my point again is, CT left things about to the referee with some sort of CG being part of the M-drive, while later versions provided specific answers with specific attributes.

atpollard May 9th, 2016 12:51 AM

I guess that makes me the lone heretic.

If the ship has too little thrust to lift off, then it docks at the highport or stays in orbit and waits for a shuttle.

JUST LIKE A ROCKET WITH A T/W <1!

(This IS rocket science.) ;)

IMTU a ship with a 400% of 1G MD is called a 4G MD. (Duh). :)

aramis May 9th, 2016 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whipsnade (Post 538354)
The details are irrelevant to the point being made, Wil.

CT strongly implied unseen and unnamed technologies which allowed 1g ships to take off in +1 gee gravity fields.

MT by GDW continued that model leaving the answer up to the referee.

DGP, a third party publisher writing for MT, wrote that M-drives can be "overclocked" up to 400% in SSOM, a product just like the Judge's Guild output, is merely approved for use with Traveller.

TNE then decided to answer the questions by providing specific equipment.

So, my point again is, CT left things about to the referee with some sort of CG being part of the M-drive, while later versions provided specific answers with specific attributes.

Actually, DGP's SSOM was cited as canonical by GDW staffers even while in print. It was clearly considered canonical by GDW, in a way that other licensees weren't, as, essentially, GDW outsourced MT to DGP.

The nature of the handwavium also was already reflected in the times to orbit table in MT IE...

kilemall May 9th, 2016 01:36 AM

IMTU double the G output of the M-drive at a cost of one day's fuel per 100 seconds (effectively forgoing the efficient ion/Emdrive like normal cruise thrust by dumping fuel in for a chemical/grav compressed mode).

It is also stressful, starting at 300 seconds continuous one starts rolling for cracking the M-drive chamber.

G-liners operate more like slow air/rafts in a stressed G capacity (1:1). They simply won't go to high-G planets (grav driven craft are for civilized space).

kilemall May 9th, 2016 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fovean (Post 538309)
I've been using the theory that every M-Drive produces twice its rating in Gs - half for maneuver, half for inertial compensation. Turn off compensation and you get extra Gs to work with but your crew/passengers/cargo now suffer the effects of G-forces....


That's rather clever. At the moment I want a more guaranteed painful experience at higher Gs, but that could be a fun alternative.

Fovean May 9th, 2016 02:48 AM

Thank you. Clever perhaps, more about simplification. Unfortunately there's little in the RAW dealing with lack of inertial compensation that I can find so I've had to house-rule that :/

Which actually is not a big deal. Acceleration couches/benches, g-drugs and certain EVA/combat suits all take care of most worlds. I've come around to inflicting damage in these situations (if any) at the speed of plot rather than devising over-arching rules. Outside of extreme evasive maneuvers it would generally amount to bruises, nose bleeds and black outs so unless it's the pilot that suffers one of those the team can generally count on getting to the next beat.

Basically I'm doing MDrive - WorldG = Actual MDrive

What makes this simplification interesting to me is the SPEED at which a ship can or can't exit the gravity well - a lot of those hi-g worlds have really fast atmospheric/interface raiders/interceptors that can really mess up a sluggish 1G or 2G ship's day. So yeah, it ain't the maneuvers that'll get you, it's the bad guy running circles around you... Or the disgruntled high passenger suffering an extra 0.4G in addition to the extra several hours to the jump point...

kilemall May 9th, 2016 11:43 AM

Fovean, Marchand, we went into this in detail in one of my first threads, a good read for several takes on a solution to your OP.

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Dis...ad.php?t=34502

Marchand May 9th, 2016 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilemall (Post 538381)
Fovean, Marchand, we went into this in detail in one of my first threads, a good read for several takes on a solution to your OP.

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Dis...ad.php?t=34502

Excellent, thanks. I thought it must have been covered previously but couldn't find a reference.

Many good suggestions already in this thread.

timerover51 May 10th, 2016 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atpollard (Post 538358)
I guess that makes me the lone heretic.

If the ship has too little thrust to lift off, then it docks at the highport or stays in orbit and waits for a shuttle.

JUST LIKE A ROCKET WITH A T/W <1!

(This IS rocket science.) ;)

IMTU a ship with a 400% of 1G MD is called a 4G MD. (Duh). :)

Make that two heretics.

Edit Note: I should add that I use mainly Classic with a touch of Mongoose for ship design (mainly to get the variety of the interstellar drives in Mongoose). I assume that the maneuver drive rating in Gees is for a fully loaded ship, with all jump fuel and fully loaded with cargo. Generally, I assume 5 tons mass per Traveller displacement ton of volume for Free Traders and mixed passenger-cargo ships, and 15 tons of mass for dedicated cargo and bulk carrier ships. I have some formulas that I use to convert Traveller hull volume to mass for private and commercial ships, with military ships a different category. As such, once a ship jumps, it has a bit of maneuver drive reserve in terms of Gees. The result is that a ship with a listed capability of 1G, if post-jump and traveling light on cargo may actually be capable of 2 or more Gees.

In My Heretical Traveller Universe, fuel for ship operation is a negligible factor in ship's mass, so more of a cushion.

mike wightman May 10th, 2016 03:28 PM

Typical Traveller ships do not have rocket drives, they don't throw reaction mass out of the back and don't have to worry about delta-V or orbital mechanics. The magic 1g maneuver drive provides a constant 1g of thrust.

Don't take off like a rocket, take off like an aeroplane - you accelerate along the ground until you achieve sufficient speed to become airborne thanks to lift - your ship is streamlined remember.
You now keep accelerating and climbing, getting faster and faster until your horizontal thrust is matched by air resistance, so you climb to lesson the air resistance, your thrust remains 1g and you keep climbing and getting faster.
When you reach an altitude where their is too little air to provide lift you will be going fast enough to point the nose up and achieve orbit - gravity falls off with distance and even if you only have effectively 0.01g of net acceleration for this 'rocket' stage of the flight you will still achieve orbit. It won't be as fast as just blasting off with a 2g drive, but you will get their.
Taking off from a 1g world with a 1g ship is easily doable.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:36 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.