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timerover51 June 17th, 2019 01:56 AM

Treaty of Versailles
 
The One Hundred Anniversary of the Treaty of Versailles is coming up on June 28th, and I was wondering if there was going to be any special mentions or activities concerning it?

I have been thinking about it as I am wading through Von Tirpitz's memoirs and also Ian Hamilton's Gallipoli Diary. Von Tirpitz is not easy reading, given his continued pronouncements that any made by Germany is superior to anything else on the planet, and the German Fleet could have beaten the Grand Fleet at Jutland if only they had more daylight. I need to see how Scheer account of the High Seas Fleet compares to Tirpitz.

Condottiere June 17th, 2019 04:32 AM

Then he should have been in command, and Jellicoe would have his own Square.

Reban June 17th, 2019 12:06 PM

I don't know of any national commemorations in Europe but no doubt there will be some act of commemoration in Versailles.

Many of the signatory nations might not want to highlight the Treaty for the fallout and division that resulted from it.

On the other hand many small nations will celebrate the centenary of their foundation from the commencement of the Treaty in January/February 2020.

McPerth June 17th, 2019 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reban (Post 602974)
Many of the signatory nations might not want to highlight the Treaty for the fallout and division that resulted from it.

I fully agree with this.

Many see the Treaty of Versailles as the seeds for Nazi party rising and WWII.

BRJN June 17th, 2019 07:15 PM

I have not heard of any public ceremonies.
Privately, it might be appropriate to read the relevant chapter from Churchill's World Crisis (I think in vol. 5), where he applies hindsight to events at the Conference as they transpire.
I haven't looked very hard, but the other participants probably wrote memoirs that discussed their acts / motivations / decisions, and thoughts on the results.

kilemall June 17th, 2019 08:01 PM

Well, here is what the National WWI Museum is doing-


https://my.theworldwar.org/4236


https://my.theworldwar.org/4240


https://my.theworldwar.org/4253


A collection of the US Army's journalist that was there-


https://www.theworldwar.org/explore/...ace-conference

Barrel June 20th, 2019 03:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McPerth (Post 602975)
I fully agree with this.

Many see the Treaty of Versailles as the seeds for Nazi party rising and WWII.

I've heard this before, but the Italians were with the Allies WWI, weren't paying reparations, yet they turned to fascism like Germany, and did so years before Germany did.

Condottiere June 20th, 2019 04:11 AM

That's because the Great War exposed the inherent instability in the boot strapped polity.

Reban June 20th, 2019 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrel (Post 603060)
I've heard this before, but the Italians were with the Allies WWI, weren't paying reparations, yet they turned to fascism like Germany, and did so years before Germany did.

The Treaty of Versailles was the origin of the League of Nations which was set up to defend the rights of minorities both within existing empires and the new countries formed after the break up of the Central Powers.

Fascism could have been stopped on the 30s if the Allied Powers had listened to the leadership given by the League.

The League called for intervention against Italy in Ethiopia to defend the native population. Italy was unchecked and fascism grew bolder.

The League called for intervention in the Spanish Civil War but the Great Powers demurred and German and Italian fascists used it as a live laboratory.

The League was responsible for German speaking minority territories and free cities that Hitler wanted to reincorporate in his Reich. Once again the Great Powers failed to lend support to the League that they had created and German fascism was unchecked in its expansion.

The Treaty of Versailles was punitive on the ordinary German population, yes, and probably pushed them to the strong man government that the Nazis provided. In Italy the same post war hardship made Mussolini's "get things done" practicality attractive.

I'd argue that the Treaty is not exactly a cause, but the structures it set up that could have contained fascism went unsupported by the Great Powers that framed the Treaty.

Or to say it another way: not a cause but a context.

JimMarn June 21st, 2019 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrel (Post 603060)
I've heard this before, but the Italians were with the Allies WWI, weren't paying reparations, yet they turned to fascism like Germany, and did so years before Germany did.

The explanation I saw about Italy and Japan becoming 2 parts of the Axis is that during the Treaty talks, Great Britain and France ignored their questions, suggestions, and requests for territory. Japan wanted the German held islands in the Pacific. I remember, but could be mistaken, Italy wanted the German controlled areas in North Africa.

So they decided they didn't like being ignored and took the territories they had asked for.

Yes, Hitler saw the Fascism of Italy, and copied it. The Facines, bundle of straight sticks and the ax. Just like the Roman Empire, which Mussolini wanted to return to.


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