Citizens of the Imperium

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-   -   GT and Traveller canon (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=11981)

mike wightman February 7th, 2004 05:53 PM

I have no wish to start any sort of flame war or to cause anyone to fall out with anyone over the discussion of this question.

Does anyone know how much GT material has been canonised by MWM as applying in the OTU rather than the GURPs alternative reality setting?

William February 7th, 2004 09:43 PM

I should know better by now...

Explicitly? None. However, each book has to be vetted by him prior to publication. Hence things like "jump masking" can be presumed to apply to the OTU. Remember that the only thing changed, officially, is the historical events surrounding the assination. Now, G:V does serious violence to Traveller on many occasions, but in theory it's all describing the same physical universe. It's like you're using an old soviet physics text instead of a western physics text <WEG>.

In the end it's like every other supplement - if you're a writer you have to consider it. If not, pick and choose 'cause it's YTU.

I use much (nearly all) of the non-GURPS specific material IMTU. Since I don't care for GURPS as a system, the rest falls aside. I'm sure others feel differntly (Cue Consty... ;) )

William

snrdg082102 February 8th, 2004 12:20 AM

Evening Sigga Oddra & William,

I have to side with William that to my knowledge G:T is neither canonized or taboo. Currently, again as far as I know, T20 is in a similar limbo as G:T as to wether the material is canon or not. Material from both variants must meet the standard set down in the licensing and get MWM's nod.

Tom Rux

Malenfant February 8th, 2004 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by William:
I use much (nearly all) of the non-GURPS specific material IMTU. Since I don't care for GURPS as a system, the rest falls aside. I'm sure others feel differntly (Cue Consty... ;) )

Hrm?

I like the GT stuff, obviously [img]smile.gif[/img] . What system it's for isn't really important to me though (but I do like GURPS) - I just think it's really well written. :D

Consty

Elliot February 8th, 2004 12:28 PM

What was the reason for diverging from the MT/TNE timeline in GT?

From the (unfavourable) remarks made by Mr Wiseman on the TML about DGP and the MegaTraveller timeline I get the impression that he was not a fan of the MT direction? Is this the reason for the rather strange divergence of GT from canon(after all - why rewrite history and not just set GT in 1105?)

Or was it a fan driven thing from the TML'ers at the time saying they hate MT?

mike wightman February 8th, 2004 12:40 PM

Good question, the only answer I know of is the LKW intro that says it is a common varient to pretend the Rebellion never happened.

Here's another question. GT includes the possibility of the Empress Wave in its future. Has this quietly been dropped or will we have another Traveller schism if the GT version contradicts what MJD is writing for the 1248 book? This is assuming GT ever goes that far along the timeline ;) [img]graemlins/file_23.gif[/img]

notagoodusername February 8th, 2004 01:39 PM

To answer Elliot's question/point about MT, the Rebellion caused some annoyance to many CT fans as they liked thier Imperium just the way it was. GT was created to address that. Personally i have no preference for Rebellin or Classic, but many do. GT appeals to some, MT to others. Horses for courses.

On the canon point, my best guess would be as they hold a license the stuff they make is canon. Although the alternate to MT stuff (1120 and beyond) is not applicable tot he OTU, any pure concept stuff or pre-1120 stuff would be canon as it is in the common timeline.

Shane

Elliot February 8th, 2004 01:48 PM

Shane I suppose that is the answer then - I always saw it as a bit odd - waiting 10 (real)years to make two time line shifts (MT and TNE) back from the official time line.

I always thought that the GT timeline was a backward step, but then the conservativism of fans is an ever lingering thing (hahahaha [img]graemlins/file_21.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/file_23.gif[/img] )

As a straw poll who played this common variant that GT is predicated on before GT? By that I mean, who played beyond 1116 rather than staying in 1105-1115. What happened to the TI after 1116 in your game?

Malenfant February 8th, 2004 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sigg Oddra:
Here's another question. GT includes the Empress Wave in its future. Has this quietly been dropped or will we have another Traveller schism if the GT version contradicts what MJD is writing for the 1248 book?
Er, wherever did you get the impression that the EW was in GT's future? AFAIK it's another thing that won't ever happen in that timeline.

notagoodusername February 8th, 2004 03:03 PM

AFAIK too the EW is a TNE thing. GT = no TNE = no EW.

Wow, lots ob abbreviations. Good Morning Vietnam, anyone? [img]smile.gif[/img]

Shane

mike wightman February 8th, 2004 03:45 PM

Longbow 2 exists, and since the Empress Wave originated in the Galactic core many years before 1116 (the point at which the two realities diverge) then it should exist in the GT timeline. But, as I asked, have they dropped it as an idea, never to pursue it?

Oops, I've just read my original question, I should have said "GT includes the possibility of...".
Still, it gets people talking ;)

Irsan February 8th, 2004 05:05 PM

Well, the first version I know of Traveller was the GT version, so the GT alternative usniverse is MY default universe. Maybe Wiseman had something in mind for CT, then suddenly with the Rebellion, he had to cancel it and now with an alternate timeline, he can do what he originally planned (just a theory).

What is the Empress Wave? Somebody tell me, please. And please explain me what the Longbow projects are like I'm a six year old.

daryen February 8th, 2004 05:46 PM

Everything I have seen LKW say about the GTU says that everything prior to 1116 (except for a couple of very minor items necessary to kill Dulinor) are identical between the OTU and the GTU.

The GT rulebook specifically states in the sidebar on p30 that
Quote:

The reason Strephon was away from Capital remains the same in both universes, ...
Strephon was away to check up on the Longbow project, which was being affected by the EW. Consequently, the EW is almost guaranteed to be in the GTU.

Of course, this is practically irrelevant, as the EW won't reach Imperial space for at least another 80 (game) years. Same for the practical effects on the Zhodani to appear. That won't happen for another 80 years, too.

So, while the EW is in the GTU, it doesn't really matter as it is just too far in the future to make any difference.

Quick explanation:
The Empress Wave is a psionic "wave" that seems to have a negative effect on psions. It is moving from "core-ish" out at approximately the speed of light. As it is washing over the Zhodani Consulate, it is causing significant disturbances with the Consulate. By the time of TNE (1200) the Consulate has crumbled as a result.

The full explanation of the EW will be given in the TNE 1248 sourcebook being playtested right now from QLI. (Truth in advertising: they haven't gotten to that chapter yet.)
The Longbow project description is right in the GT sourcebook. (I am assuming you have that.)

kafka47 February 9th, 2004 10:21 AM

As I stated in an earlier post, it is still not certain that Dulinor died (there is a little gem in GT Starports)...

Certainly, the ISS Sargon exploded, but we do not know why it exploded...

Naturally, the Grey Faces could be having us on, and they could have known about the plot against Stephon and taken action.

But, IMGTU (In My GURPS Traveller Universe), if I would play in the milieu...if there was such a thing, it would better play Dulinor with his memory wiped (such as in Memory Alpha) and dump him in the Hinterworlds where he could play the role of a rising star.

GT remains a goldmine of consolidating CT data but I wish that I could see more concepts being fleshed out rather than just their quick insertion.

For example,

The Planetary Survey books seemed to be heading in the right direction but then SJG decided to just do worlds already discussed in canon, as well as, new worlds. Sadly, I would have only preferred new worlds, as to enrich my understanding of the Traveller Universe. Also, innovative was the Black, Grey, White segments that oulined other possible Traveller universes, but this idea was also dropped. I also had very high hopes for Humaniti, having enjoyed the other GT: AM but again there was something missing.

Therefore, my gaming dollar/euro, I would rather support QLI, as they are a company that seems to be innovating and expanding frontiers until T5 comes into being,

daryen February 9th, 2004 11:12 AM

Regarding Dulinor, from what I remember, LKW has pointedly refused to definitively answer the question as to whether Dulinor is truly dead or not.

So, I should probably refer to "Dulinor's gig exploding" as the divergence point, rather than "Dulinor's death".

(Though, personally, I do hope he stays dead in the GTU.)

Malenfant February 9th, 2004 11:48 AM

I'm not sure if the 'everything that happened before 1116 is GT canon' logic applies to the Empress Wave. AFAIK that simply never happened in the GT universe, which is another reason that it's an 'alternate universe'.

Malenfant February 9th, 2004 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by daryen:
The GT rulebook specifically states in the sidebar on p30 that
"The reason Strephon was away from Capital remains the same in both universes, ..."
Strephon was away to check up on the Longbow project, which was being affected by the EW. Consequently, the EW is almost guaranteed to be in the GTU.

Strephon was away to check up on Longbow II, yes.

There's no evidence there to suggest that the EW was why he went off to check on it though. Yes, I know your logic makes sense, but the possibility remains that in GT the EW simply doesn't exist.

Jame February 9th, 2004 03:06 PM

The GT Timeline doesn't seem to be moving forward much. There is the TNS, but it doesn't seem to have much...

daryen February 9th, 2004 03:22 PM

Well, my main point is that even if the EW does exist in the GTU (which I think it does), it doesn't matter, as it won't do anything until 1200, which is 80 game years into the future.

As for the Timeline moving forward, no it doesn't seem to. But they do seem to be laying the groundwork for stuff in the Rim, that they will hopefully take advantage of at some point. (Who knows, maybe the Aldebaran sourcebook will have more in it than just Aldebaran. We can hope.)

And if today's TNS is any indication, some interesting things could start happening in the Marches, too.

kafka47 February 9th, 2004 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by daryen:
knows, maybe the Aldebaran sourcebook will have more in it than just Aldebaran. We can hope.)

Yes, my hope is that there is trouble brewing in Alderbaran. So far, Jon has been very tight lipped about any indication that the Solomani are going to go into Civil War...

Quote:

And if today's TNS is any indication, some interesting things could start happening in the Marches, too.
Yes, we can live and hope but it seems like that is a ressurection of the Warrant thread...

Malenfant February 9th, 2004 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jame]:
The GT Timeline doesn't seem to be moving forward much. There is the TNS, but it doesn't seem to have much...
It doesn't have to move forward much though - what are you expecting, random leaps forward by 20 years at a time?! ;)

The current rate of advance (essentially a 1:1 ratio with real time) is perfectly reasonable, IMO.

kafka47 February 9th, 2004 05:51 PM

I think we are all kinda expecting that all the gaming companies adopt the old GDW/DGP practice of dating things according to the real world calendar.

eg. 2004 = 1004

Somehow, GDW & DGP were never consistant with this dating scheme because of production delays but it gave a real sense of movement within a story arc. (From what I understand, story arcs do not really exist in any other form of Traveller other than TNE Mk I...but I could be wrong.)

Malenfant February 9th, 2004 06:04 PM

Well, it was just new year of 1121 in teh TNS reports, so I think it's more that
2004 AD = 1121.


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