Citizens of the Imperium

Citizens of the Imperium (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/index.php)
-   Imperial Interstellar Scout Service (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/forumdisplay.php?f=17)
-   -   History: how did the Vilani spread through charted space on Jump-1? (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=38337)

sudnadja October 10th, 2017 06:10 PM

History: how did the Vilani spread through charted space on Jump-1?
 
I didn't see the immediate answer to this, my understanding is that the Vilani were limited to Jump-1 for a long time. Were they limited to their local Jump-1-able cluster?

I plotted a connected graph of the Vland subsector with a maximum connected distance of 1 parsec, and you can spot Vland itself near the center. From the Jump-1 perspective, Vland is a member of an island of 11 stars. Were the Vilani limited to those 11 stars until they developed Jump-2, or did they hop to other "islands" by some other mechanism?



Carlobrand October 10th, 2017 06:53 PM

If this thing is right, Vilani gained Jump 2 about halfway through their spread:

http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Vilani

Still, Jump 1 is not an impediment to getting to stars more than a parsec off. It just means you have to do it in two or three or however many jumps instead of 1. You carry more fuel and plan on it taking longer.

Xerxeskingofking October 10th, 2017 08:36 PM

what map are you using for that J route map?

I'm looking at the current travellermap map of Vland, and it has a J1 route rimward into Kasear subsector, via kasear itself, onto a large main that then runs both coreward-trailing (into Lishun, and even Core, in Ameios subsector!) and rimward (into the Lancian Cultural region), and even up around the coreward side of vland then back spinward as far as Vhodan subsector).

all of that, on the same J1 main. it'd be a bugger and involves some serious snaking, but It could be done, even without using a multiple-jump ship design.

inexorabletash October 10th, 2017 10:17 PM

Yeah, Vland is on a huge main. Turn on the Experiments options on the map and enable Mains and click on Vland to see it.

I suspect you’ve got an off-by-one error in your handling of even/odd hexes.

Nathan Brazil October 10th, 2017 10:40 PM

Part of the answer is larger fuel tanks. In the same manner as the Terrans broke out of the "pocket" and they only had Jump 1 or the CP system in 1248 books.

Two solutions exist. I am not a great ship design guy, but (using HG design rules here):

Solution 1 - More fuel
Jump 1 consumes 2% of a ship's volume.
One Jump-1, uses 10% of the ship for Fuel
4 Jump-1's consume 40% of the ship for a total of 42%
Design the rest of the ship as needed.
This allows a Vilani "Deep Exploration Survey Ship" an effective Jump-2 without the need for refueling.

Solution 2 - Drop Tank resupply system.
Design ships with J-1 and fuel for two Jumps (22% volume) as fuel tankers.
Add a drop tank (10%) and linkages to make them standard size modules.
Add a fuel depot space station to control resupply
This is Calibration Point system used Traveller 1248 Sourcebook 4: The Freedom League

sudnadja October 10th, 2017 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inexorabletash (Post 575071)
Yeah, Vland is on a huge main. Turn on the Experiments options on the map and enable Mains and click on Vland to see it.

I suspect you’ve got an off-by-one error in your handling of even/odd hexes.

I was using the API pseudocode - and it was fine, it's just the grapher would sometimes determine that a distance of 1.0 is just *barely* over adjacent hex distances. Changing the distance allowed to 1.005 gives a (probably) more accurate view:



as I select for only systems in Vland, the disconnected graphs are probably an artifact of chopping at the sector borders.

Nathan Brazil October 10th, 2017 11:47 PM

Considerations:

The biggest ones are these. Vland has no Gas Giants. And the Vilani play it safe. Even during their adventuresome period.

1.Gas Giants are odd exo-planets the Vilani might see as we do other exo-planets, but their economic value as fuel is theoretical at best (Gee would't it be neat if Vland had one? *sigh*). Until they get out into the universe.

2.Their technology and solar system culture requires them to grow and survive without gas giant fuel skimming and reprocessing. Until the Vilani decide to invent NAFAL and/or Jump they work in-system using in-system resources. Ice-asteroids? Maybe. But before that.

Ocean refueling/skimming/reprocessing? Maybe. They may have the scientific knowledge to create fuel scoops and purifiers, but the inventors of hydrogen extraction process would more likely claim patent and force you to pay to refuel.

3.Until they see a Gas Giant up close they wont have experience with one.

4.During the NAFAL years, Gas Giants become available. Since it takes 45/90 years to get travel to nearby and back, there will not be an economic system for refuel like solution 2 between star systems. But Vilani conservatism and safety will allow the hydrogen manufacturers to set up their plants in-system to support and grow the pre-Jump colonies establised.

Nathan Brazil October 11th, 2017 12:02 AM

Exploration

The NAFAL exploration period will teach them to play it safe. 90 years is long time to take risks, so they learn to take everything they can with them. And they got the after reports once the expeditions came back to learn from their successes and mistakes. Take it with you becomes ingrained because the Vilani examine and keep doing what works. If it worked for your ancestors, it will work for you. During this period, hydrogen producers will grant usage/incorporation of their equipment (after the appropriate royalty is paid).

This very unlike the Terran NAFAL period prior First Contact. The Terrans made long term expeditions like the ESA colony ships to Reft Sector and nearby Prometheus. They never got to culturally ingrain the results of NAFAL though, because the Terrans invent Jump before round trips are made.

sudnadja October 11th, 2017 12:12 AM

So, with the corrected jump 1 distances, the Jump-1 path from Vland is much more extensive. This is for all Imperial systems connected via Jump-1 from Vland. Vland itself marked on the graph:



There are still many unreachable systems and islands though. Vland can reach 972 systems, the second largest Jump-1 island is 360 systems. (unless there's another precision mistake)

inexorabletash October 11th, 2017 12:32 AM

That looks about right.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/inexorablet...ilani-main.png

With a single J-2 bridge you can get from the Vilani main in Lishun onto another main that reaches up into Trenchans. Another bridge in Gushemege gets you onto a main reaching into Ilelish and Zarushagaar. With just two J-2 bridges you can get to Sylea in Core and Massilia.... and well, basically everywhere if you're patient enough. There are very few truly isolated worlds if you're patient.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:04 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright (c) 2010-2013, Far Future Enterprises. All Rights Reserved.