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-   -   General Armor and Weapons As Mustering Out Benefits (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=39978)

whartung April 24th, 2019 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobby-w (Post 601076)
IBM guarantees parts for 40 years for their mainframe products, and DEC used to use manufacturing techniques designed for avionics to produce components for the VAX. You can make electronics with a nice, long shelf life if you want to spend money.

IBM and DEC don't have their electronics running around in snow, sand, mud, rain, and 110 degree heat in the hands of someone named "Joe".

Quote:

Having said this, a conventional projectile weapon is purely mechanical, and ammunition technology has allowed it to have shelf lives of half a century or more while still remaining viable. One could argue that with current technology we don't really have a pressing need to go with radically different technology than we have now - maybe bigger and more powerful if some significant improvement in body armour technology becomes widespread.
Yes, conventional weapons are, but we were talking about Gauss Rifles -- which are unconventional even if ubiquitous.

The AR-15 pattern rifle is the US Military's longest serving long arm (50+ years now I guess). It's fair to say that fire arm technology suitable for the field has plateaued.

Companies and militaries have been working on next generation rifles for quite some time, but nothing of note has broken through in terms of high technology. They seem to have most of the problems with bullpups solved apparently, however.

Panzerkraken April 25th, 2019 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whartung (Post 601106)
The AR-15 pattern rifle is the US Military's longest serving long arm (50+ years now I guess). It's fair to say that fire arm technology suitable for the field has plateaued.

Companies and militaries have been working on next generation rifles for quite some time, but nothing of note has broken through in terms of high technology. They seem to have most of the problems with bullpups solved apparently, however.

I think you'll find that honor belongs to the M14, still in active service as the Mk 14 EBR.

However, I agree with you on the firearms technology plateauing. I had a nice, rousing argument the other day with a friend over bullpup vs. traditional vs. alternate layout (G11/P90) for action in a combat rifle. We never did settle on one being better than the other, it all comes down to what's comfortable for the users.

CaptRet April 25th, 2019 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fovean (Post 601044)
Never really saw the concern, but we’ve always played in Outland/Firefly type campaigns where rifles, pistols and knives were to be expected. But the heavier stuff we always steered away from, even for Army and Marine characters. Kept it special when every once in a while a VRF Gauss gun or a PGMP was in play.

Maybe he shipped it home a few pieces at a time ?

Condottiere April 25th, 2019 04:28 AM

I did a little research on the ssubject of advanced combat rifles and the US Army last week, to figure out likely Confederation slugthrower policies.

They conducted tests thirty years ago to find a replacement, and it seems that unless there was at least an overall fifty percent improvement in performance, which none of the candidates had, it wasn't worth their while.

They concluded that required High Explosive tipped bullets.

However, it does seem that the rifle and probably the cartridge slowly evolved since then, to suit current doctrines and battlefield experiences.

The next big innovations are likely reliable caseless rounds and dead on sighting and tracking, meaning lighter ammunition and one shot one kill.

There's going to be a tension between outranging your opponents and closing the gap.

CaptRet April 25th, 2019 12:01 PM

Beginning in 2014, the US Army began evaluation of a "smart rifle" (made by Tracking Point), that has laser sights and a built-in computer. The ACR is not long in coming.
Quoting from the Daily Mail article:

A laser rangefinder is used by the shooter looking through the scope to identify the target that he or she wants to hit.The high-tech sight then takes into account humidity, wind and the typical ballistic drop from a bullet fired over a distance.Once the target has been selected, the scope provides cross-hairs which have to be lined up with the pin that is dropped on the target. To ensure accuracy, the shooter can not even squeeze the trigger unless the cross-hairs and pin are aligned.

kilemall April 25th, 2019 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Condottiere (Post 601119)
I did a little research on the ssubject of advanced combat rifles and the US Army last week, to figure out likely Confederation slugthrower policies.

They conducted tests thirty years ago to find a replacement, and it seems that unless there was at least an overall fifty percent improvement in performance, which none of the candidates had, it wasn't worth their while.

They concluded that required High Explosive tipped bullets.

However, it does seem that the rifle and probably the cartridge slowly evolved since then, to suit current doctrines and battlefield experiences.

The next big innovations are likely reliable caseless rounds and dead on sighting and tracking, meaning lighter ammunition and one shot one kill.

There's going to be a tension between outranging your opponents and closing the gap.


Since that contest was actually called ACR, I'm assuming that is what prompted that naming and firearm qualities in our game rifle, with built-in assumptions that some advanced tech really better then current panned out.


One of the things I like about original Striker was that interplay between armor and weapon development, with sometimes offense and sometimes protection having the upper hand.

kilemall April 25th, 2019 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptRet (Post 601122)
Beginning in 2014, the US Army began evaluation of a "smart rifle" (made by Tracking Point), that has laser sights and a built-in computer. The ACR is not long in coming.
Quoting from the Daily Mail article:

A laser rangefinder is used by the shooter looking through the scope to identify the target that he or she wants to hit.The high-tech sight then takes into account humidity, wind and the typical ballistic drop from a bullet fired over a distance.Once the target has been selected, the scope provides cross-hairs which have to be lined up with the pin that is dropped on the target. To ensure accuracy, the shooter can not even squeeze the trigger unless the cross-hairs and pin are aligned.


To me that would be the advent of the 'electronic sight' from CT.


The game ACR proper is a bit beastly- in Striker it's penetration and effective/long range is equal to the TL6 HMG, I'm assuming that's effectively an M2 .50 cal. To me, the ACR is a hightech G11 that works out the bugs.


The ACR is quite the leap-small ammo packing such a wallop, probably materials technology to allow for a barrel that is handling very high pressures, whatever quality measures for said barrel to handle auto fire, and a lot of recoil tech to handle the increased power.

The common rifleman carrying a handheld M2 in rifle form certainly is a jump in firepower.

whulorigan April 25th, 2019 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilemall (Post 601128)
The ACR is quite the leap-small ammo packing such a wallop, probably materials technology to allow for a barrel that is handling very high pressures, whatever quality measures for said barrel to handle auto fire, and a lot of recoil tech to handle the increased power.

I have always interpreted the ACR to use an outgrowth of or advancement upon Electrothermal Chemical (ETC) propellant (introduced in TNE also, IIRC).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...cal_technology

kilemall April 26th, 2019 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whulorigan (Post 601130)
I have always interpreted the ACR to use an outgrowth of or advancement upon Electrothermal Chemical (ETC) propellant (introduced in TNE also, IIRC).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...cal_technology


<Shrug> LBB4 doesn't specify, I am going with the round weights but plenty of room for other interpretations. Whatever makes you feel fuzzy, a happy 'my world is the way I like it' ref is likely more at ease with his reffing.

Condottiere April 26th, 2019 05:56 AM

One difference is that caseless rounds are reliable enough to use in full automatic, and I would presume that the manufacturing process would make them cheaper than the cased ones we have today.

Since the propellant part of the round is completely consumed, you don't need an ejection slot, though removing a dud might be more complicated, which is why I assume it's one reason it's technological level ten, where this may happen once in five, ten or a hundred thousand times.

I might be misremembering, but nine millimetre bullets were conceived to have a six millimetre sabot, six millimetres the normal ACR bullet, and a Pournelle invented compromise between NATO standard and the previous one; sabots, I'm told, tend to bounce around on the ground when firing from a prone position, possibly back to the shooter, and his friends shouldn't stand too close to him.


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