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-   -   MGT Only: FFW: Zhodani destroyers? (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=39911)

Redcap March 11th, 2019 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert (Post 599953)
A quickie conversion of your design would be:

5000 Dt, J-3, M-6, Armour 14, Hull 2200, MCr 3800
Backup drives: J-2, M-2, PP-2. Backup bridge.
Good sensors (DM+5) and ECM (DM+8) with backups and 15 operators.
Computer Core/90 and backup Core/40/fib with full software suite.
Three bays, one Particle (8D, Accurate +1) and two Missile (launches 48).
40 turrets/barbettes (space reserved for 20 barbettes), here
_ 20 Particle (Accurate +1) barbettes against fighters and
_ 20 Pulse Laser (Long Range) turrets against missiles.
7 PD Batteries, kills 3D missiles each.
3 Sub-Command Centres, e.g. dedicated to barbette, turrets, and sensors (+1 on checks)
10 Nuclear Dampers against Nukes and Fusion Guns.
2 Utility Cutters
Storage 157 Dt. A few extra staterooms and medical low berths.
Crew: 114, including 11 officers and 30 troops. (Note: Used reduced crew for large ships.) 10 staterooms are enhanced for psions.


Not optimised for any particular role, but reasonably combat effective.

I added armour and M-6 drive, fairly cheap and very useful in combat, almost mandatory. I didn't manage J-4 without severely compromising combat performance.


(snippage)

GAGH. Just noticed this, apologies. I LIKE the M-6, very nice, and I take your earlier point regarding Zho designs and their love of fighters in everything, including, by the look of it, the dessert course ;)

J-3 is about good enough for it, agreed J-4 would be better!

What did you use to design this?

AnotherDilbert March 11th, 2019 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redcap (Post 599958)
What did you use to design this?

http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Dis...ad.php?t=38848

AnotherDilbert March 11th, 2019 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redcap (Post 599957)
The Badreapr class DS is the Zhodani answer to a deep-penetration destroyer, tasked with sneaking into a target system and having "a quick shufti" to see what's there to oppose an attacking force. It has no need of traditional missile armaments, and will do its best to stay out of the range of missiles, favouring it's particle accelerator to keep at beyond stand-off ranges while it prepared to jump out of trouble. It carries marines for boarding actions against lesser-capable opponents, and to perform reconnaissance missions, using the 50-ton armed cutters to ferry them to and from their insertion and extraction points (dropping them in orbit using grav-chute-equipped orbital personal re-entry kits if necessary; see MegaTraveller Journal 3 page 74, (c) DGP March 1992).

Code:

Ship: Badreapr
Class: Badreapr
Type: Strike Destroyer
Architect: Roger Stenning
Tech Level: 14

USP
        DS-E1347D5-200103-70900-0 MCr 4,971.818 5 KTons
Bat Bear                1 1 3    Crew: 102
Bat                      1 1 3    TL: 14


I would call this way too big and expensive for something that can't fight. It is also unable to retreat without refuelling, even an SDB or two could prevent that.

With CT I would use something like this:
J-3, but J-4 fuel, so it can do J-2, look around, and jump out again.
M-6, Size A, max computer so it is difficult to hit.
Armour 4 so it is safe from Internal Explosions.
Minimal Screens to guard against nasty surprises, such as Meson Bays.
Only Agility-2, but Emergency Agility-6 to be able to run away.
Single batteries to require lots of hits to suppress it.
Basically only large factor nuke missile batteries (and spinals) can really hurt it.
Code:

FS-A1366H2-474400-55007-0      MCr 1 727      1 900 Dton
bearing    1    11  1                          Crew=41
batteries  1    11  1                            TL=14
            Troops=10 Cargo=236 Fuel=684 EP=114 Agility=2

Dual Occupancy                                    236,3    1727,4
                                    USP    #      Dton      Cost
Hull                Custom            A          1900         
Configuration      Needle/Wedge      1                      228
Scoops              Streamlined                              1,9
Armour              4                  4            95      66,5
                                                               
Jump Drive                            3    1        76      304
Manoeuvre D                            6    1      323    161,5
Power Plant                            6    1      228      684
Fuel, #J, #weeks    J-3, 4 weeks            3      684         
Purifier                                    1      13,7      0,1
                                                               
Bridge                                      1        38      9,5
Computer            m/8fib            H    1        22      140
                                                               
Staterooms                                  6        24        3
Staterooms, Half                          45        90      11,3
                                                               
Cargo                                            236,3         
Collapsible Tanks  200 Dton                1        2      0,1
                                                               
Turret-3 Missile    10 Turrets        7    1        10      22,5
Turret-3 Beam      2 Turrets          5    1        2        6
Turret-1 Fusion    1 Turret          5    1        2        2
Turret-3 Sand      4 Turrets          7    1        4        3
                                                               
Nuclear Damper                        4    1        8        30
Meson Screen                          4    1        16        40
                                                               
Launch              20 Dton                1        26      14,1
                                                               
Nominal Cost        MCr 1727,4          Sum:              1727,4
Class Cost          MCr  359,81        Valid        ≥0        ≥0
Ship Cost          MCr 1384,72                                 
                                                               
                                                               
Crew &              High    0        Crew          Bridge    10
Passengers            Mid    0          41      Engineers    7
                      Low    0                    Gunners    17
                Extra SR    0      Frozen        Service    4
              # Frozen W    0          0          Flight    3
                  Marines    10                    Marines    10

Change the missile battery to a missile bay for increased offensive power, but that costs nearly all the cargo space.

Redcap March 11th, 2019 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert (Post 599962)

Oooooo works with LibreOffice :) Neat :)

Redcap March 11th, 2019 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert (Post 599971)
I would call this way too big and expensive for something that can't fight. It is also unable to retreat without refuelling, even an SDB or two could prevent that.

With CT I would use something like this:
J-3, but J-4 fuel, so it can do J-2, look around, and jump out again.
M-6, Size A, max computer so it is difficult to hit.
Armour 4 so it is safe from Internal Explosions.
Minimal Screens to guard against nasty surprises, such as Meson Bays.
Only Agility-2, but Emergency Agility-6 to be able to run away.
Single batteries to require lots of hits to suppress it.
Basically only large factor nuke missile batteries (and spinals) can really hurt it.

(Snipetty snip snip snip)

Change the missile battery to a missile bay for increased offensive power, but that costs nearly all the cargo space.

Hmm. More a corvette (see https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Stalwart_class_Corvette ) than a destroyer, imho, but I get the idea.

OK, lets look at this from another view. I need a Zho ship that can get into a system from a distance of minimum J-3; it must be reasonably militarily agile, and while on extended operations away from resupply of munitions, have an effective one-two punch to at least its own weight, preferably one level above, for at least two major engagements without using missiles it cannot resupply without abandoning its mission early, and be able to GTFO again on the hurry-up if necessary. It must have the ability to launch boarding parties, and be capable of conducting a full reconnoitre without drawing unwelcome attention on itself. Endurance-wise, it must have the capability to operate at longer distances than usual from its base of operations or fleet, so should figure on holding two months of supplies for its crew at the minimum.

I'm thinking that this might fit into the classic definition of a pocket battle cruiser (Real world: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsc...lass_cruiser)? Thoughts?

mike wightman March 11th, 2019 02:54 PM

I haven't checked this so I will edit this post later if necessary, but off the top of my head the 'canon' sources for Zhodani ships would be GURPS Traveller, Power Projection: Fleet and Squadron Strike: Traveller.

The Zhodani fleet is listed as:
1 Viepchakl BB
2 Kefchenzh CA
2 Zhdavidlits CL
8 Zhdiak DH

I'll have to go dig out the books to get the stats for the Zhdiak DH

AnotherDilbert March 11th, 2019 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redcap (Post 599975)
Hmm. More a corvette (see https://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Stalwart_class_Corvette ) than a destroyer, imho, but I get the idea.

I use corvette for <1000 Dt, frigate for <~3000 Dt. YMMV.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Redcap (Post 599975)
OK, lets look at this from another view. I need a Zho ship that can get into a system from a distance of minimum J-3; it must be reasonably militarily agile, and while on extended operations away from resupply of munitions, have an effective one-two punch to at least its own weight, preferably one level above, for at least two major engagements ...

Presuming MgT2 the major kill-vectors are spinals, missiles, and fighters.

A Panzerschiff is a baby capital ship, so presumably a spinal, and much larger than a destroyer. I think we can build a reasonable ship with a minimal spinal at about 30 kDt.

How about a mini-carrier with stealthed fighters? It can get into and out of systems with minimal risk of detection, and send stealthed fighters to scan the system without risking the ship. The fighters still pack a considerable punch, much better than a few bays.

Something like this:
6000 Dt, J-3, M-6, not combat capable, MCr 5200.
Stealthed hull, Stealth jump drive.
Drop tank capable to be able to jump into a system with full tanks.
Plenty of space for people and cargo.
Capacity for 20 small craft of 35 Dt, e.g. 16 fighter/sensors and 4 utility/boarding craft.
https://i.imgur.com/9AiqBjL.png

https://i.imgur.com/vBW5Vra.png


The fighters should be able to kill a destroyer. Not even remotely optimised, but should work?

Redcap March 11th, 2019 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike wightman (Post 599985)
I haven't checked this so I will edit this post later if necessary, but off the top of my head the 'canon' sources for Zhodani ships would be GURPS Traveller, Power Projection: Fleet and Squadron Strike: Traveller.

The Zhodani fleet is listed as:
1 Viepchakl BB
2 Kefchenzh CA
2 Zhdavidlits CL
8 Zhdiak DH

I'll have to go dig out the books to get the stats for the Zhdiak DH

Huh. The Zhdiak looks a little like that ship on Stargate: Universe :rofl: Anyhow, I've had a quick look at the wiki on it, but it's a little light.

The Zhdavidlits is somewhat bigger than I'd like, the Kefchenzh is waaaaaay too big (14,000 tons?!), ditto the Viepchakl (200,000 tons?! WOW).

So, no joy there, sadly, but even so, thanks for replying :)

Redcap March 11th, 2019 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert (Post 599990)
I use corvette for <1000 Dt, frigate for <~3000 Dt. YMMV.



Presuming MgT2 the major kill-vectors are spinals, missiles, and fighters.

A Panzerschiff is a baby capital ship, so presumably a spinal, and much larger than a destroyer. I think we can build a reasonable ship with a minimal spinal at about 30 kDt.

How about a mini-carrier with stealthed fighters? It can get into and out of systems with minimal risk of detection, and send stealthed fighters to scan the system without risking the ship. The fighters still pack a considerable punch, much better than a few bays.

Something like this:
6000 Dt, J-3, M-6, not combat capable, MCr 5200.
Stealthed hull, Stealth jump drive.
Drop tank capable to be able to jump into a system with full tanks.
Plenty of space for people and cargo.
Capacity for 20 small craft of 35 Dt, e.g. 16 fighter/sensors and 4 utility/boarding craft.

(Snippety snip snip snip)

The fighters should be able to kill a destroyer. Not even remotely optimised, but should work?

Hmm. There's an evil idea... I am a tad leery on the idea of sending a carrier into an unknown place on its todd, but even so, that's a remarkably ballsy idea... and not a little out of the box, too, come to think of it. "Would, though, the Zho's do this?" is the next question, mind you :)

AnotherDilbert March 11th, 2019 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike wightman (Post 599985)
I haven't checked this so I will edit this post later if necessary, but off the top of my head the 'canon' sources for Zhodani ships would be GURPS Traveller, Power Projection: Fleet and Squadron Strike: Traveller.

The Shivva class is a staple from CT. It is a small ship carrying light fighters.


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