Citizens of the Imperium

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-   -   T5 status (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=39155)

marksolino June 16th, 2018 06:31 AM

T5 status
 
What is the current status of this game? Playable? Still much to be errata'd? Just needs a new TOC and index before it's done? I've found it hard to get a current snapshot of where it's at. Is MM still committed to its completion, or does he consider it something that the fans can complete or to be pretty much done (I see that he seems to be devoting more of his energies to fiction/the card game, etc).

lordmalachdrim June 16th, 2018 10:51 AM

Status is unchanged.

We are still waiting on the final errata to be incorporated in the PDF.
Fans say the errata is done but need Miller to put it in the book.

Given the fact that he appears to have vanished from anything Traveller related I think it's safe to say that the book will never see the final corrections and that the entire project has been written off by him.

Going forward I suggest treating him in a similar vein as Ken Whitman.

Supplement Four June 16th, 2018 11:57 AM

I think, if you like T5 and are willing to put in the work to needed to use that game, then just do your own thing.

Fix what you think needs fixing. Use T5 as a starting point, and create your own version of the game.

Play. Repeat. Play. Fix. House rule as you go.

If something comes out, take a look at it and use it if you want. But, otherwise, stop waiting and just play the game.

aramis June 16th, 2018 02:34 PM

Marc circulated a new draft to the inner circle last week.

lordmalachdrim June 16th, 2018 03:04 PM

I'll believe it if and when anything ever materializes, but considering the years of complete darkness from him I doubt anyone involved's honesty.

ShawnDriscoll June 16th, 2018 05:19 PM

There are parts of T5.09 that replace (supersede) parts of MgT1 and MgT2 for my Traveller games. T5.09 does what I need just fine.

timerover51 June 17th, 2018 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordmalachdrim (Post 588181)
I'll believe it if and when anything ever materializes, but considering the years of complete darkness from him I doubt anyone involved's honesty.

Robject had a group working on it in the Moot, with the initial draft being finished about a month ago. I suspect that something will be coming out before the end of the year.

Gardensnake June 18th, 2018 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordmalachdrim (Post 588172)
Status is unchanged.

We are still waiting on the final errata to be incorporated in the PDF.
Fans say the errata is done but need Miller to put it in the book.

Given the fact that he appears to have vanished from anything Traveller related I think it's safe to say that the book will never see the final corrections and that the entire project has been written off by him.

Going forward I suggest treating him in a similar vein as Ken Whitman.

Wow! Even if Marc never writes another word for Traveller and considered 5.09 the final version, I don't think I would ever equate him with Ken Whitman. That is harsh. Marc has earned the right to walk away if he wishes and has ripped of nobody. Ken Whitman has become the quintessential villain of the rpg community and deserves that distinction much more than Marc Miller has. I would never treat Marc in the same vein as Ken Whitman, I owe him too much.

William

David Johansen June 20th, 2018 10:16 AM

Marc could try harder to communicate. On the other hand, if there's nothing to report there's nothing to report. I know a member of the committee and he says it's coming along slowly. T5 is a massive project. Too big for one man really, but the owner is one man and intends to keep it to his vision. He's probably had his fill of fans bitching and doesn't care too much about that part of it.

jcrocker June 21st, 2018 12:06 AM

Given the huge nature of the task, and the fact that Marc had open heart surgery a few months back, I think comparing him to Ken is more than a little harsh.

I don't think anyone would refuse the occasional update, though.

Ackehece June 26th, 2018 01:20 AM

Marc has officially crunched his way through the entire errata now. More news soon.

Wol June 26th, 2018 10:10 AM

Delighted to hear there is some progress. I was starting to have doubts....:)

regards

Ackehece June 26th, 2018 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordmalachdrim (Post 588172)
Status is unchanged.

We are still waiting on the final errata to be incorporated in the PDF.
Fans say the errata is done but need Miller to put it in the book.

Given the fact that he appears to have vanished from anything Traveller related I think it's safe to say that the book will never see the final corrections and that the entire project has been written off by him.

Going forward I suggest treating him in a similar vein as Ken Whitman.




Uh Robert says Marc is done with errata and is looking for 5.1 print options.. see the traveller Facebook page for more details.

MichaelSTee June 26th, 2018 08:13 PM

>> Robert says Marc is done with errata and is looking for 5.1 print options.. see the traveller Facebook page for more details.

Thanks for posting this. Not all of us are on Facebook (well, I'm not, at least), and this is good to know. If there is any more info on FB, please post it here.

Thanks!

ovka June 26th, 2018 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelSTee (Post 588535)
>>Thanks for posting this. Not all of us are on Facebook (well, I'm not, at least), and this is good to know. If there is any more info on FB, please post it here.

Me neither. I set up an account several years ago and added my spouse as a friend. Then I watched as all kinds of unsolicited information about people I didn't know rolled in.

My inner security troll screamed "NOPE!" I haven't been back.

Cheers,

Baron Ovka

Ackehece June 27th, 2018 12:33 AM

Ok. 2 things....
1 Marc comments quite often on Facebook.
2 Robject is the administration for the traveller RPG Facebook group.


So without further addo. Here is part 1

Posted June 2 2018

"Traveller5 Status
_
As you all know, T5 is a project that is near and dear to Marc's heart. Many of you know that Marc is a bit of a gearhead when it comes to character creation, guns, armor, and vehicles, and a process guy when it comes to most everything else. Even though he didn't write MegaTraveller, I think that it must have rung some of his bells, even while bothering him in other ways. Anyway, both vibes shows through in T5.
_
So this January he resolved to do the errata pile. And of course I humored him. Yes, of course you are. But he has surprised me by making it a priority, and he is making good headway. He didn't tell me how far along he is, but from his optimistic projections WHICH I SHALL NOT PASS ALONG ("no dates!" Don always said), it looks like he's halfway through. You can do the math.
_
Then he'll figure out how to do the reprint.
_
Then he'll put the Player's Handbook together. It would be nice if he borrowed from Rob's Cut -- if that helps him get it done faster, that is. That was my goal in the first place: any obstacles that I remove can't hurt and could help.
_
Rob "Chief Traveller Sycophant" Eaglestone"




Part 2
Posted June 25 2018 (fresh enough for you all?)

"Updated update. Marc has finished the errata pile. Now he's working out how best to get T5.10 to print."

whulorigan June 27th, 2018 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ackehece (Post 588546)
Ok. 2 things....
1 Marc comments quite often on Facebook.
2 Robject is the administration for the traveller RPG Facebook group.
.
.
.


Thanks for passing this along. I also do not do Facebook.

I don't suppose there would be any way to have a thread or something in the Citizens' Information Center that has the Facebook commentary from Marc, is there? (or would that be a major logistical hassle)?

tjoneslo June 27th, 2018 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whulorigan (Post 588552)
Thanks for passing this along. I also do not do Facebook.

I don't suppose there would be any way to have a thread or something in the Citizens' Information Center that has the Facebook commentary from Marc, is there? (or would that be a major logistical hassle)?

As another person who does not Facebook, I strongly second this suggestion.

coliver988 June 27th, 2018 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjoneslo (Post 588556)
As another person who does not Facebook, I strongly second this suggestion.

and a third...this site is about as social as I get :) (okay, there is G+ but that is also fairly limited and as I already had the gmail account...)

The Pakkrat June 27th, 2018 10:20 AM

SO not a user of that-Face-thing. Thanks for this update. We eagerly await both T5.10 and the Players Handbook. Thanks to all who have worked on this and to those called up on as extra eyes.

MichaelSTee June 27th, 2018 07:40 PM

As others have said, thanks very much for this info, for those of us who do not FB. Please keep posting any more FB news in this thread.

Also, if the errata is done, and Marc is looking to re-print, does that mean that a new PDF might be ready for those in the Moot or who signed up to play-test? Just to look thru and see if more errata didn't sneak in?

Ackehece June 28th, 2018 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelSTee (Post 588571)
As others have said, thanks very much for this info, for those of us who do not FB. Please keep posting any more FB news in this thread.

Also, if the errata is done, and Marc is looking to re-print, does that mean that a new PDF might be ready for those in the Moot or who signed up to play-test? Just to look thru and see if more errata didn't sneak in?

I'll see about mirroring comments from Facebook to here. I might just have to cut and paste.

As for errata/ early PDF... Robject would have to answer this.

Ackehece June 28th, 2018 12:24 AM

Marc Miller posted June 22 2018
xxxLatest postxxx


"In the annals of military history, June 22, 1941 is an important date. As the Summer Solstice, June 22 was the longest daylight of the year (16 hours and 44 minutes), and for the German armies invading the Soviet Union, strategists wanted every possible minute of daylight for their first day.

That was 77 years ago today, and I mention it because 45 years ago today, GDW Game Designers’ Workshop began as a publisher of military simulation wargames: specifically the Europa Series starting with Drang Nach Osten (later Fire In The East) and Unentschieden (later Scorched Earth). These award winning titles reproduced the Russian Front of World War II in the first of the monster game genre.

I remember fondly those days (and nights) of game design, and testing, and production in offices in Normal Illinois. The legacy of Frank ChadwIck and Rich Banner remains as big, well-researched, spectacularly produced, and truly fun to play games in the military simulation vein, and I am proud to have been part of that time, even if my participation in the Europa Series was only at the fringes.

The legacy continues, however, as Frank Chadwick is now publishing Thunder In The East, redoing the Europa Series, albeit at a somewhat smaller scale."





Xxxxcccccccccxxxxxxxxxcccccc

Previous posts in last two months.

Triplanetary
Gognard
T5 can you survive character creation speed character generation rules for conventions.

Ackehece June 30th, 2018 09:29 AM

New Marc Miller post on T5 today

"Traveller5 (the logical extension of Classic Traveller) talks about Benchmarks: understandable basic principles for size, and distance and value. It goes beyond the simple equivalent 1 Credit equals 1 Dollar.

First, it defines what money will buy: less than a credit will buy a snack; 10 credits will buy a meal. 100 credits will buy basic clothing. 1000 credits will buy a device of some importance.

Also a person can expect to earn (and spend) 100x Social in a month. A Soc=2 homeless person somehow gets about Cr200 in a month, and spends 60 for housing, 80 for meals (about Cr2-3 a day) and about Cr2 per day on other stuff. A Soc-7 person gets and spends about Cr700 a month on living. A Soc-12 person is spending about Cr1200 a month.

The Benchmark thing is also intended to help the referee: when players want to know how much for rent, or a meal, or some “thing” they need, then the Benchmark principles help him figure it out."



He is definitely posting guys, and definitely (see first line) sees T5 as core.

robject June 30th, 2018 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ackehece (Post 588717)
New Marc Miller post on T5 today

Thanks for propagating the posts here, Ackehece.

Facebook is very easy to post to, and its reach is shallow and wide.

Now to summarize what Ackehece has already summarized. Marc has incorporated the Big Pile Of Errata, and is now working on how to reprint this monster.

As Marc incorporated errata, the monster grew. So as impressive as T5.00 is, Marc is talking to printers about a three-volume set in a slipcase.

Yes, we always seem to come back to Three Books. In this case, Three Big Black Books, rather than three very slim Little Black Books. It is what it is.

T5.10 is on Marc's radar finally; I suspect he has finished Grognard and other projects, and is taking a break from his second novel. The goal is to keep him on task, then. So the priorities are:

1. Finalize the logical text divisions.
2. "Get them printed" (what could possibly go wrong?)
3. Publish single-source PDF alongside three-book hardcover print set.

I don't know what you call it ("single-source"), but what I mean by that (just to be pedantic) is that Traveller5 will be ONE single PDF, but will be printed in THREE books. Theologians, you may begin to formulate your Traveller creeds now.

I'll post a separate reply on the Handbook, because I have less knowledge there.

robject June 30th, 2018 09:56 AM

But first, a note on something Ackehece mentioned. "Marc sees T5 as core."

Indeed he does; that's why T5.00 is 650 pages, and T5.09 750 pages... and T5.10 850 pages. From the get-go, he wanted to bring in resources that GDW produced as supplemental but rather more important than just being an add-on.

Consider MegaTraveller as an evolution of the LBBs. It brought in Library Data, charts and forms, and gathered in rules scattered about. Even GDW realized that they had been filling in little (and not so little (Mercenary, High Guard, Scouts, Merchant Prince, Robots)) gaps all along.

LBB1-3 were intended to be all you needed to run science-fiction adventure. In a different way, T5 Core is intended to be all the tools you need to build your science-fiction setting. Yes, the Third Imperium is an implied default, but T5Core is a RPG toolset.

It's not a wargaming toolset, nor is it a Grand Strategy toolset, although maybe some of it sort of overlaps into those spaces.

AnotherDilbert June 30th, 2018 09:56 AM

Good news!

Is this just incorporating errata, or does T5.10 also complete previously incomplete systems such as the ship combat system?

robject June 30th, 2018 10:04 AM

NOW the Player's Handbook.

Marc's radar is currently on T5.10. The Player's Handbook is not directly part of that, *I think*.

Partly Marc is still deciding WHAT the T5 Player's Handbook should be.

There are AT LEAST three schools of thought, and subdivisions within those schools.

1. Declare Book 1 to be the Player's Handbook.
2. Reorganize the T5.10 chapter order, to better set up a Player's Handbook, THEN declare Book 1 to be the Player's Handbook.
3. Build the Player's Handbook from SELECTED chapters from T5.10.
4. As #3, but with plenty of GLUE TEXT added to make the presentation good for newbies and players.
5. The Player's Handbook is a COMPLETELY NEW THANG that is written FROM T5.10.

They all have great arguments pro and con. I admit that #4 is an ideal that would consume the most time. My "Proof Of Concept" Player's Handbook shows that Routes #4 and #5 are doable... and I am conceited enough to think that sections of it are usable as-is in Marc's PH.

Here's what I DO know about the T5PH:

* smaller format, i.e. not 8.5x11. 6x9 is the number I think I heard.
* 200 pages.
* new illustrations.
* geared for Players: chargen, skills, tasks, combat, and equipment.

robject June 30th, 2018 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherDilbert (Post 588720)
Good news!

Is this just incorporating errata, or does T5.10 also complete previously incomplete systems such as the ship combat system?

I'll check.

1. The format has been altered significantly.
2. There's a flow on the first page that reminds me a bit of High Guard (defenses try to deflect before pen is rolled) and a bit of T5 personal combat (hit task, pen, damage), procedurally.
3. The Battery Rule is still there (GOOD!)
4. The section feels shorter, which is a good thing - it doesn't ramble. Looks like it gathered itself up into a better organization. 7 pages, perhaps 8. I suspect it relies on other sections (ship design) to explain how damage can be tracked, but these rules now seem to me to be more clearly geared for role-playing rather than wargaming.

AnotherDilbert June 30th, 2018 10:23 AM

Sounds good, thanks.

Reban June 30th, 2018 11:23 AM

T5.10 is coming: YAY!!

It's 850 pages: YIKES!!


Thanks everyone for the updates.

jcrocker June 30th, 2018 11:28 AM

Thank you very much for the updates!

Quote:

Originally Posted by robject (Post 588719)
... and T5.10 850 pages.


My poor mailman...

Spenser TR June 30th, 2018 11:32 AM

Truly awesome news... thank you everyone for gathering the intel and posting it here.

robject June 30th, 2018 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcrocker (Post 588727)
Thank you very much for the updates!

[re 850 pages]

My poor mailman...


Three printed hardcover 8.5x11 books, appx 250 pages each, probably omitting forms and charts for example.

Still a lot for the mail.

And one huge integrated PDF, which of course still weighs very little.

lordmalachdrim June 30th, 2018 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robject (Post 588719)
Indeed he does; that's why T5.00 is 650 pages, and T5.09 750 pages... and T5.10 850 pages.

If the errata increases the page count by ~200 pages then T5 was precisely what we are not allowed to say.

Adam Dray June 30th, 2018 12:31 PM

You can say it. Just not in Marc's house.

Ackehece June 30th, 2018 01:21 PM

Updates :) sometimes just because you don't hear anything for a while doesn't mean things are not being completed. Hopefully this lot of updates encourages many ;)


I will continue to repost Marc here as it is easy for you lot that are facebookphobic. Rob of course will chime in time to time... usually with special effects

whulorigan June 30th, 2018 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ackehece (Post 588736)
I will continue to repost Marc here as it is easy for you lot that are facebookphobic. Rob of course will chime in time to time... usually with special effects


Thank you very much for your effort to do this. :)
@Admins: Would it be possible to make this thread a Sticky in the T5 Forum?

PVernon June 30th, 2018 11:17 PM

Another thank you.

Ackehece July 1st, 2018 09:21 PM

*stickied* thanks :)

Wol July 2nd, 2018 09:26 AM

I am *really* looking forward to this. The size of the errata was overwhelming, and in some cases it is quite unclear what was intended.

regards

ThornPlutonius July 2nd, 2018 03:21 PM

This is great news! I just hope I can afford the new book set! /laugh/

Original_Carl July 3rd, 2018 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThornPlutonius (Post 588876)
This is great news! I just hope I can afford the new book set! /laugh/

I will find a way. :)

Sebastion Russ July 5th, 2018 12:17 PM

Life always finds a way...

ShawnDriscoll July 5th, 2018 11:47 PM

I would buy a hardcover book of 5.10 if it's the final version of T5 for awhile. I just have a PDF of 5.09, which I like the rules of.

The Pakkrat July 6th, 2018 07:13 AM

Want It
 
I too would shell out money for a printed T5.10 as I own only the .pdf Were I to have players in front of me, I'd commemorate the opportunity by purchasing dice sets for each of them.

Garnfellow July 6th, 2018 09:28 AM

I'm not from Missouri, but I would want to see the PDF before I committed to a hard copy. There's just so much errata I would want a better handle on what I'd be getting.

MichaelSTee July 6th, 2018 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garnfellow (Post 589101)
I'm not from Missouri, but I would want to see the PDF before I committed to a hard copy. There's just so much errata I would want a better handle on what I'd be getting.

Amen to that.

Note that there never was a printed version of 5.09. I could consider buying a print of 5.10, even if it's in 3 books, but only after seeing the PDF. And I haven't gotten a physical RPG book since, well, T5.

Ackehece August 10th, 2018 05:54 PM

As per Mr Eaglestone.

"It's about time for me to check up on Marc and see what he's been doing with T5.10 lately.
.
In the meantime, here's a short update. Marc passed out his draft to his team of reviewers, and they bombarded him with questions. Thankfully, this list isn't as long as the original errata list. But they are all good points -- the reviewers are all fans, so imagine the questions he has to answer. I think he will have a few more edits to make."

aramis August 10th, 2018 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ackehece (Post 590841)
As per Mr Eaglestone.

"It's about time for me to check up on Marc and see what he's been doing with T5.10 lately.
.
In the meantime, here's a short update. Marc passed out his draft to his team of reviewers, and they bombarded him with questions. Thankfully, this list isn't as long as the original errata list. But they are all good points -- the reviewers are all fans, so imagine the questions he has to answer. I think he will have a few more edits to make."

Pretty accurate assessment, I think.
I'll note my few questions to Marc are in very limited areas, but run to some pretty fundamental disconnects.


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