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-   -   T4 Only: How to "fix" your T4 game... (Conclusion) (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=38199)

Arnold-C September 7th, 2017 09:01 PM

How to "fix" your T4 game... (Conclusion)
 
I hope it would be okay to make up a new thread expanding the "How to "fix" your T4 game..." topic's ideas. For a to me unknown reason each post appears twice in that old one, which really makes my eyes hurt... :)

At First, I'm a bit late on the "T4 Party". Back in the late 80's and during the 90's we (my old gaming group) played a lot the Traveller Version wich was published in german by Fantasy Productions in 1986 (which's content layout is mostly identical to the "Starter Edition" of 1982 (except that the tables rather put into appendices at the back of the book than integrated into the main text like ist done in the "The Traveler Book" from 1983. The latter would have been much more easier to read. The need to page-flip forth and back is insane).

Due to the sales or FanPro's publishing policy, neither MegaTraveller, nor TNE or "Mark Miller's Traveller" have been translated and published in Germany. And as it looks like, 13Mann, which are publishing Mongoose's Traveller in german, are about to fold.

A while ago I got my Hands, or more precise, my Harddrive, on a T4 Core Rules PDF from DriveThru.

Recently I compaired the Target Numbers for the PRIOR SERVICES from T4 with those from the various "Classic Traveller" publications.
I found out that a T4 Target Number is exactly the CT Target Number -14 and changing the (+) into (-).

For example:
the Enlistment Roll for Army is 5+ in CT, and it's 9- in T4.
(5 - 14 = 9).
the Enlistment Roll for Marines is 9+ in CT, and it's 5- in T4.
(9 - 14 = 5).
And so forth. So I created a quick conversion matrix:

TARGET NUMBERS
---------------------
CT T4
--- ---
3+ 11-
4+ 10-
5+ 9-
6+ 8-
7+ 7-
8+ 6-
9+ 5-
10+ 4-
11+ 3-

Now, since some (or most) find the Characteristics' influence as too much in T4, instead of determining the Target Number by "Characteristic + Skill", you could determine it by the T4 equivalent of the CT Basic Throw of 8+ (which would be 6-) with the Skill Level as DM (Difficulty Modifier, as explained on page 13 of the T4 book).

So, having to characters, Adam One with Medical-2 and Winne Two with Medical-4, Adam's Target Number would be 8-, while Winne's would be 10-.

If you want to have a further Characteristic influence, you could use a Advantageous/Disadvantageous DM (Difficulty Modifier again) for a characteristic above or below average like it's used in CT in some places.

Let's say DM +1 for Int/Edu of 8+ and DM +2 for Int/Edu of 11+, and DM -1 for Int/Edu of 6- for example.

Now, let's assume Adam is just above average clever (Int 8), while Winne isn't just the brightest candle on the cake (Int 5).

Adam's and Winne's final Target Number would now both be 9-.

Varying from that you also could use Advantageous/Disadvantageous DM's for both (all) characteristics listed for a certain skill, in case of "Medical" Int and Edu, and Dex and Str for "Throwing". The Dex DM determines the character's hand-eye coordination, while Str determines if he/she could throw that knife that far.

Default (Level-0) skills would have a Target Number of 1/2 of the Basic Target Number, 3-, modified by the Advantageous/Disadvantageous DM for a characteristic above/below average.


Just my Cr2 about "how to fix" T4's Task System.

ShawnDriscoll September 14th, 2017 03:57 AM

Is the roll using 2D then? Or is it still using 2D, 3D, 4D, 5D, etc?

Arnold-C September 14th, 2017 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShawnDriscoll (Post 573516)
Is the roll using 2D then? Or is it still using 2D, 3D, 4D, 5D, etc?

Task Difficulties would be still those given on page 5 (and corrected on the T4 Game Screen):
Easy............Automatic (1D for Level-0 skills)
Average.......2D
Difficult........2.5D
Formidable...3D
Staggering...4D
Impossible...5D


Alternatively, you could use Task Difficulties similar to those used in T5, by eliminating the "half-die":
3D for "Difficult",
4D for "Formidable",
5D for "Staggering" and
6D for "Impossible".

Or you could even use the above conversion matrix to recalculate the "Prior Career Tables" and any other various Target Numbers throughout the T4 Corebook to expand/replace the "Classic Traveller" Character Generation.

AsenRG September 15th, 2017 07:04 PM

Interesting, but have you considered the Alternative Task System instead:)?

Supplement Four September 15th, 2017 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arnold-C (Post 573152)

TARGET NUMBERS
---------------------
CT T4
--- ---
3+ 11-
4+ 10-
5+ 9-
6+ 8-
7+ 7-
8+ 6-
9+ 5-
10+ 4-
11+ 3-

Just my Cr2 about "how to fix" T4's Task System.


I'm not sure what you are fixing. It does seem that you've realized that the writers went from a roll over to a roll under system using 2D6.





Quote:

Originally Posted by AsenRG (Post 573597)
Interesting, but have you considered the Alternative Task System instead:)?


Wow. It has been a long, long time since I've seen that....

Arnold-C September 16th, 2017 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsenRG (Post 573597)
Interesting, but have you considered the Alternative Task System instead:)?

I had a look at that one (and others), but I don't like the amount of rules changes it carries with it, the need to inflate skill level "expertise" and the increasement of dice rolled for a raised difficulty level.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supplement Four (Post 573598)
I'm not sure what you are fixing. It does seem that you've realized that the writers went from a roll over to a roll under system using 2D6.

I tried to find a "fix" for the much criticized influence of a characteristic (or "Attribute") in T4's task resolution. Without artificially inflating skill level rates and task difficulty dice numbers, and, like Ken Bearden et all, I wanted to "keep the flavour and general design philosophy of the official T4 task system", but keep it simple and the amount of changes as low as possible.

On the character generation process, T4 uses the exact probabilities of the "Classic Traveller" game system, the target numbers have just been "inverted" to fit into the change from the "roll over to a roll under system". (The probabilites of rolling 8 and higher on 2D6 are just the same as rolling 6 and lower, like it's shown on the 2D6 Dice Table on page 665 in the new T5 rulesbook (Version 5.09)).

Considering, that Enlistment-, Injury-, Commission-, Promotion-, and Continuance-Rolls (etc.) during T4's character generation are of an "Average" Task Difficulty (2D), with characteristics of (and above) a certain number providing Difficulty Modifiers (DMs), a use of the T4 equivalent of Classic Traveller's "Basic Throw" Target Number of 8+ as well to determine the Base Target Number for T4's Task System, would IMO let it stay close to to the original rules system of Classic Traveller, which, in an "inverted" form, is already in use within T4's character generation rules.


My proposal involves just two (and IMO minor) rules changes:

1. instead of "Characteristic + Skill", the target number for Task Resolution will be determined by "Base Throw Target Number + Skill".
(using the T4 equivalent of 6- for Classic Traveller's 8+).

2. a characteristic, instead of forming half the base of a Target Number, will provide a DM (Difficulty Modifier) if it's above or below average.
(like it's already being used in T4's character generation in case of characteristics above average).


The amount of dice rolled determined by a task's difficulty level does not change!

This way a charateristic will have much less influence on the final Target Number and favours those characters with an average characteristic and a high skill level over characters with a high characteristic and a low skill level.

This modified T4 Task Resolution System will basically be that of Classic Traveller, with the exception of an "inversion" to a "roll under" system in combination with an increasement of an amount of dice rolled when a task's difficulty level is raising and DMs rather affecting the final target number than the die-roll.


All in all, it's just another proposal for a way to eliminate T4's characteristics-favourism, and if you like an other "Alternative Traveller Task System" more...
;)


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