Citizens of the Imperium

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-   -   GT Universe Only: Agent of the Imperium - Canon in the Lorenverse or Not (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=35721)

Nathan Brazil January 31st, 2016 06:48 PM

Agent of the Imperium - Canon in the Lorenverse or Not
 
I am 2/3rds reading and am fascinated about the underpinings of the Imperium. All or Nothing here.

inexorabletash January 31st, 2016 07:00 PM

Assuming:

(1) Agent is canonical in the OTU; and

(2) the Lorenverse diverges only notably in 1116, and divergence prior to that point is the minimum necessary to lead to the main divergence

... then given the events in Agent I can't see how there is any room for it to not be canonical in the Lorenverse. Without even considering the content of the book, just the setting, i.e. centuries prior to 1116, the above imply it would be canonical by default.

Considering the content of the book, there are Notable Events that occur that are common to the history of both the OTU and Lorenverse which are given explanations in Agent. If canonical for the OTU (#1) but not Lorenverse, those Notable Events would require an alternate explanation, which violates #2.

Again, those are assumptions. If either of those is dismissed then the argument falls.

Nathan Brazil January 31st, 2016 07:12 PM

There are events occurring in the main timeframe of the book in the mid 400s, which challenge assumptions I have heard are what "Lorenverse" is about pre- and post- 1116, hence the voting options I have read/not read the book.

jcrocker January 31st, 2016 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan Brazil (Post 529864)
There are events occurring in the main timeframe of the book in the mid 400s, which challenge assumptions I have heard are what "Lorenverse" is about pre- and post- 1116, hence the voting options I have read/not read the book.


The book spans several centuries, ending in the 730s. Since Marc wrote it, I'm going to assume it's all canon, and all of it is somewhere in the background of the 'Lorenverse'.

Of course, if I use any of it or not in a game I'm involved with is between me, my legal representatives to the Imperium, and the Zhodani Fun Police.

whartung February 1st, 2016 12:39 AM

I've given up on canon. Canon is what you make of it. Traveller "canon" is like a bad time travel story with parallel timelines diverging, and merging, in and back again.

With 10 versions of the game to fail to keep track of, canon is as canon does in my book.

If you want Agent as part of YOUR canon, knock yourself out.

aramis February 1st, 2016 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by inexorabletash (Post 529859)
Assuming:

(1) Agent is canonical in the OTU; and

(2) the Lorenverse diverges only notably in 1116, and divergence prior to that point is the minimum necessary to lead to the main divergence

... then given the events in Agent I can't see how there is any room for it to not be canonical in the Lorenverse. Without even considering the content of the book, just the setting, i.e. centuries prior to 1116, the above imply it would be canonical by default.

Considering the content of the book, there are Notable Events that occur that are common to the history of both the OTU and Lorenverse which are given explanations in Agent. If canonical for the OTU (#1) but not Lorenverse, those Notable Events would require an alternate explanation, which violates #2.

Again, those are assumptions. If either of those is dismissed then the argument falls.

Actually, given the requisite lead time, it must diverge notably by late 1115, probably by the end of 1114, because it would take at least 6 months, and more like 9-12, to get the conspiracy in place. Given the time lag for comms, it had to either not happen at all or be called off at least 6-9 months earlier than the target date.

Nathan Brazil February 1st, 2016 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramis (Post 529915)
Actually, given the requisite lead time, it must diverge notably by late 1115, probably by the end of 1114, because it would take at least 6 months, and more like 9-12, to get the conspiracy in place. Given the time lag for comms, it had to either not happen at all or be called off at least 6-9 months earlier than the target date.

That is one of the issues related to the POD as they say in alternate history circles. The POD must be earlier. However, that is not in the novel.

It is something else that should give people pause unless it is simply butterflied away. Butterflying away things is more wish fulfillment. I rarely like people doing that. The reason I am intentionally being vague is I am hoping someone else sees what I saw in the novel...

whulorigan February 1st, 2016 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan Brazil (Post 529940)
That is one of the issues related to the POD as they say in alternate history circles. The POD must be earlier. However, that is not in the novel.

It is something else that should give people pause unless it is simply butterflied away. Butterflying away things is more wish fulfillment. I rarely like people doing that. The reason I am intentionally being vague is I am hoping someone else sees what I saw in the novel...

Are you referring to the fact that since Chonadon Bilanidin (Jonathan Bland) has effectively devised a way to keep himself alive and updated via multiple copies of himself in multiple hosts (perhaps using his authority as an Agent to order the creation of a series of clones for himself to inhabit and/or be downloaded into), that he can always be on hand over the centuries to serve the best interests of The Imperium (not necessarily the Emperor)?

Nathan Brazil February 1st, 2016 02:36 PM

That is not the one I am looking at, but ooohh, good one. :coffeesip: It goes far to explain the stability and size of the 3I for such a long period of time, events of 1116 occurring or not.

whulorigan February 1st, 2016 02:42 PM

The only other thing that I recall off the top of my head is that Empress Margaret I in the novel is succeeded by her brother Pedro instead of Paulo . . .

Don't know if that was a typo or an anomaly . . .


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