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-   -   Jump fuel. More parsecs per .1Jn (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=39726)

Rerednaw January 2nd, 2019 01:28 AM

Jump fuel. More parsecs per .1Jn
 
I have had several variations on this concept but the two most common were:
1. Higher TL = less fuel needed as the various drives operate at improved efficiency. Each TL above the minimum granted a 5% reduction. For example a TL15 Jump 1 drive (15-9) uses 30% less fuel per jump which was the maximum reduction.

2. Improved fuel. Beyond refined there is essentially a higher energy density version. At TL12 you get a flat 50% increase at TL15 the fuel is 100% or has twice the energy per ton. However this “supercharged” fuel is very expensive and usually reserved for military or special duty use. TL12 50% boost SC fuel costs 5x refined, TL15 100% boost SC fuel costs 5x with the 50% SC fuel from TL12 cost is cut in half to only 2.5x the price of refined fuel.

I tend to use the former more often. The second was for an extended deep survey into unknown space type campaign. Obviously the cost involved made it impractical for standard use (merchants) I did not use both options together.

Spinward Scout January 2nd, 2019 02:31 AM

You can change your Jump Fuel calculation from .1MJ to (1/TL)MJ. 1 divided by Tech Level of the Jump Drive(TL) times Ship Tonnage(M) times Jump in parsecs(J). Jump Tech prototypes start at TL-9, so...

At TL-9 your Jump Fuel calculation would be (0.111)MJ.
At TL-10 your Jump Fuel calculation would be (0.100)MJ. - The normal Jump Fuel calculation.
TL-11 would be (0.090)MJ.
TL-12 would be (0.083)MJ.
TL-13 would be (0.076)MJ.
TL-14 would be (0.071)MJ.
TL-15 would be (0.066)MJ. - One extra Jump-1 with a Scout/Courier that has 20 tons of Jump Fuel - assuming the Jump Drive tonnage doesn't increase as Tech Level increases.

It's still only 34% fuel reduction at TL-15, pretty close to your 'maximum reduction' (what book is that rule in?). Even when you get to TL-20, you're only at (0.050)MJ - or half the fuel needed at TL-10. Going up to TL-30, it's (0.033)MJ - one third the fuel of the TL-10 Jump Drive.

SS

Rerednaw January 2nd, 2019 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spinward Scout (Post 597558)
You can change your Jump Fuel calculation from .1MJ to (1/TL)MJ. 1 divided by Tech Level of the Jump Drive(TL) times Ship Tonnage(M) times Jump in parsecs(J). Jump Tech prototypes start at TL-9, so...

...
It's still only 34% fuel reduction at TL-15, pretty close to your 'maximum reduction' (what book is that rule in?)...
SS

I did try variants of that...but wanted to keep it simpler :) though not sure if it ended up being so.
My max reduction wasn't in any book, but was because eventually I figured at very high tech levels, there'd be 'wonder/magic-tech' power sources like Zero-point energy, Probability Sea, passive galactic gravitic fields, etc. that would be tapped directly and not require fuel. Or even Psi variants that use teleportation to travel. And at that point, 'conventional' sources would pretty much be abandoned.

Maybe a flat .01JN reduction for each TL above 9 then (with a max reduction of 90% at TL18?) But that makes TL15 very very efficient...but considering most 'new' player-ships are not TL15 and average stellar is around TL12 maybe it would be a good compromise.

Condottiere January 2nd, 2019 12:36 PM

The Mongoverse version allows this option if the jump drive is constructed above the base technological level required for that jump range.

McPerth January 2nd, 2019 02:42 PM

See that in MT, whree jump fuel needs were lower to begin with (being "just" (Jn+1) x 5% of the ship's volume) there was increased efficiency (so lower fuel needs) with TL, but begining at TL17...

This said, I must warn (as I did in other threads about similar issues) that any jump fuel reduction that allows for practical 2 consecutive J4+ is, IMHO, fully changing the setting.

One of the main issues in any Science Fiction setting strategic thought is how deep you can go into enemy territory before having to stop, be it to refuel (as Traveller), to discharge your coils (as 2300AD) or whatever it can be, as this defines how fluid the "front lines" wil lbe in a war.

In Traveller, you usually must stop after any jump (at least for higher jumps) to refuel, so giving the defender some time to react. In 2300, your fleet usully needs long stops to discharge the coils after each system move, again giving the defender some time to react.

If you can do two such high jumps (3 if using drop tanks) without even appearing at a system, things change a lot. To give some examples of the effects it would have in OTU:
  • Islands cluster is no longer isolated when you can have practical ships with independent J8 (by making 2J4 without refuelling) capacity.
  • By using drop tanks, and so making 3J4 in a row, Zhodani leaving their base in Regina without having stopped at any system, so taking the enemy fully by surprise. Imperial ships leaving Jewell could appear for first time in a system past chornor subsector...
  • The dispersion of the Louzy SDB fleet in FFW would have had quite less effect that the one described in SMC i nthe siege of Efate.
Another effect of the reduced fuel needs would be, on one hand, to reduce the advantage of the BRs over the BBs, but, OTOH, a Tender could carry more BRs...

In resume, I guess the seting would be quite changed if fuel needs are reduced (in MT they tried to compensate by making Power Plants absurdly inefficient in fuel needs, but even then there were some changes if you use low power needs ships). See that I say setting to be changed, not broken, as it may lead to other interesting setting, just diferent to the ones CT gives.

Being YTU, of course, those changes may well be what you look for, but just beware those strategic side effects

Rerednaw January 2nd, 2019 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McPerth (Post 597589)
See that in MT,...

This said, I must warn (as I did in other threads about similar issues) that any jump fuel reduction that allows for practical 2 consecutive J4+ is, IMHO, fully changing the setting.

One of the main issues in any Science Fiction setting strategic thought is how deep you can go into enemy territory before having to stop, be it to refuel (as Traveller), to discharge your coils (as 2300AD) or whatever it can be, as this defines how fluid the "front lines" wil lbe in a war.
...
Being YTU, of course, those changes may well be what you look for, but just beware those strategic side effects

I agree with you 100% which is why my default lets you get just a bit further (30% at max TL), but doesn't allow for effective double Jump ranges. It's great for merchants trying to get more cargo space and so forth. And I usually don't use Imperium, Zhodani, etc...I generally stick with the LBB1-3 setting, which is sandbox / ala whatever we get out of the Microscope session.

It does alter some of the 3rd Imperium setting stellar geography significantly, i.e. the J5 passage route is now more of a J4 route, and allows for more isolated worlds to suddenly be in reach...but it's a big mess if we are talking 6th (? whichever I lost count) Frontier War where everyone's naval fleets may suddenly have effectively Jump 12 at TL15 before refueling. It gets messy fast...

McPerth January 3rd, 2019 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rerednaw (Post 597595)
I agree with you 100% which is why my default lets you get just a bit further (30% at max TL), but doesn't allow for effective double Jump ranges. It's great for merchants trying to get more cargo space and so forth. And I usually don't use Imperium, Zhodani, etc...I generally stick with the LBB1-3 setting, which is sandbox / ala whatever we get out of the Microscope session.

It does alter some of the 3rd Imperium setting stellar geography significantly, i.e. the J5 passage route is now more of a J4 route, and allows for more isolated worlds to suddenly be in reach...but it's a big mess if we are talking 6th (? whichever I lost count) Frontier War where everyone's naval fleets may suddenly have effectively Jump 12 at TL15 before refueling. It gets messy fast...

Well, 30% reduction means that fuel needs for J4 are just 28% of ship's volumen at TL15. So, 2J4 fuel means 56% of the volumen for fuel, and so with drop tanks you may make the 3J4 i na row I told about. And as in FFW the IN has already TL15, they could doo quite deep raids into Zhodani territory...

But of course, that's in OTU, and YTU may be different, though this reduction still will make rifts less of a problema, and the j6 courriers quite more common. Even J6 cruisers will be really practical (as now they only need 42% of their volume for jump fuel, so making them more or less the equivalent to J4 ones with standard rules). With standard rules, while they are doable, with 60% of their volume dedicfated to jump fuel they must be quite light in combat power

Again, I don't say this to be good or bad, just different, and may lead to equally interesting settings, where there are less chokepoints to defend, and the defender must spread his forces more evenly. This will, I guess, lead to an advantage to offensive, and lead to more mobile wars, instead of the static ones that are likely to result in standard rules.

Rerednaw January 3rd, 2019 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McPerth (Post 597616)
Well, 30% reduction means that fuel needs for J4 are just 28% of ship's volumen at TL15. So, 2J4 fuel means 56% of the volumen for fuel, and so with drop tanks you may make the 3J4 i na row I told about. And as in FFW the IN has already TL15, they could doo quite deep raids into Zhodani territory...

But of course, that's in OTU, and YTU may be different, though this reduction still will make rifts less of a problema, and the j6 courriers quite more common. Even J6 cruisers will be ...rules.

Yep I run with TL 12 being the cap, classic (no Imperium setting.) If I ran the EU beyond 1-3 then yah I'd have to take a more careful look.

Though none of my game ever had players commanding fleets...it was usually Firefly style, a few folks making their way on a small rickety ship. Empire / fleet action level stuff was always something that was beyond their ken or influence.

Brandon C January 4th, 2019 03:01 AM

I just cut jump fuel requirements in half at all TLs. For commercial ships, this gave more cargo space, formilitary ship is made hit and run raids (jump in, attack, jump out) more effective.

timerover51 January 4th, 2019 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brandon C (Post 597669)
I just cut jump fuel requirements in half at all TLs. For commercial ships, this gave more cargo space, formilitary ship is made hit and run raids (jump in, attack, jump out) more effective.

That is probably the safest approach it you are going to play with Jump fuel requirements.


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