Citizens of the Imperium

Citizens of the Imperium (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/index.php)
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-   -   Venting (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=17639)

hunter December 1st, 2008 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gallowglacht (Post 291175)
Surprised to hear you're around enough for it to bother you.

Oh look someone who thinks being a smartass to me is a bright idea, particularly given the circumstances.

Congratulations on becoming the first example. Take some time off and think about whether you want to post here again.

See you in 7 days if you decide to return.

Any other takers?

BTW, if folks are curious as to why I really don't post here anymore other than for Administration reasons, there is a great example, though by no means the only. Lets also throw in the constant sniping about "Traveller X sucks and Traveller Y is SOOO much better", not to mention the fact that some people cannot seem to rise above a 3rd grade level and think that calling their opponent "stoopid" is winning a debate...

That said, I take a fair share of the blame for that for allowing it to get to this level.

Well it stops. And you can help. Report these jackasses and if they continue their ways they will be gone. Permanently. I and the mods can't do it alone. You've got to help. You want a better CotI, help us get rid of the jerks who play these kind of games.

And if you take offense to anything I just said? Too bad. You are exactly the kind I want GONE from here.

You want to tell us how superior version X of Traveller is? There is a forum for just that. And it isn't the Traveller Y forum. Mods, if you see these kinds of posts intruding into the wrong forum, move them or delete them.

If all you want to do is whine about how much you don't like Traveller Z? Don't post or go somewhere else.

If you make ad hominem and personal attacks on others be ready to get banned.

You want to harass my moderators, who frankly have a thankless job, you'll find yourself banned as well. You have a problem with my moderators, report the post. I get a copy of EVERY reported post.

Again I ask those of you who don't do this crap, and that is the VAST majority of you, report these kinds of posts when you see them. Don't feed these assholes because that doesn't help. Ignore it, report it, and let us deal with it. We will.

And yes this is the *real* Hunter. I cannot believe there is some assinine theory going around that somehow I am not the same person typing this message that founded this company, created these forums, programmed GRiP and wrote the T20 rules. That has got to be about the most absurd conspiracy theory I've heard lately. Get real folks.

sandmanninja December 1st, 2008 04:32 AM

Venting
 
Personal attacks?
Mate, people send you their ideas and get ignored for months - or longer.
You then ask for more submissions...

Someone vents and you ban them for a week?

Ban. Ban. Ban.

Get a GRiP.

Your ego is something that Traveller does not need.

No need to ban me - I'll never come here again and I'll ask for a refund for my T5, too.

Icosahedron December 1st, 2008 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveChase (Post 291236)
And a note to all the regulars (and anyone who reads that thread) post nicely and try to answer any questions that arise. If you can't be positive then don't post.

Shouldn't we be doing that anyway - on all threads?


Hunter, as stated above I wholeheartedly agree with your stance on personal attacks and negative posts, however two wrongs rarely make a right.
At the risk of invoking a ban myself, I think Gallowglacht and Sandmanninja have a point:

You can't expect your vehicle to remain on the straight and narrow unless you keep your hands on the wheel.

Returning intermittently and beating the tyres with a big stick, like Basil Fawlty, just doesn't do the trick.

Though it doesn't concern me directly, I have seen a number of posts here deriding your absence from the board - and other matters. I have no opinion on this except to say that you lose respect as a result - and respect is a great ally as Administrator of a board.

Little and often is probably a much better tactic - and if you really do not have the time to spare, you should seriously consider choosing a deputy you can trust and hand over control of the board to someone who can give it small but frequent nudges in the right direction and who has the authority to make requested technical and policy changes to the board.

There are a number of small but annoying technical fixes needed here, and it just seems that the only time you're seen is when you swoop in to ban someone (deservedly or not).

May I respectfully suggest that you take a few days yourself to consider what this does for your reputation?

Are you Cleon the Founder, or Lucan?

Please note that this is not intended as a personal attack on you, but as a helpful suggestion to improve the morale of the Citizens, a suggestion which you may implement or ignore as you wish.
I trust I will be permitted to air my view calmly without fear of reprisal.

Thank you, and I sincerely hope we can all work together to continuously improve CotI.

aramis December 1st, 2008 01:19 PM

Venting in threads on other topics is thread-crapping at its worst.

They belong in website issues, hence the move.

hunter December 1st, 2008 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icosahedron (Post 291318)
Hunter, as stated above I wholeheartedly agree with your stance on personal attacks and negative posts, however two wrongs rarely make a right.

I have no issue with the comments directed at me regarding my posting here or not. I do have an issue with someone being a smartass for no other reason than to be a smartass. The comment he left served no purpose other than to be antagonistic. He paid the price.

As a note, it was your fellow forumites that brought that comment to my attention by reporting it. Why do you think that was? Perhaps they to felt it was nothing more than a smartass comment meant to do little to help the situation and much to antagonize it.

You don't like my call on it? That's fine. But it won't change my decision and it's not up for debate. This isn't a democracy.

Quote:

You can't expect your vehicle to remain on the straight and narrow unless you keep your hands on the wheel.
A point of which I agreed and admitted in my post.

Quote:

Returning intermittently and beating the tyres with a big stick, like Basil Fawlty, just doesn't do the trick.
Returning and being nice wouldn't either. Frankly I'm tired of the bullshit. Big stick time.

Quote:

Little and often is probably a much better tactic - and if you really do not have the time to spare, you should seriously consider choosing a deputy you can trust and hand over control of the board to someone who can give it small but frequent nudges in the right direction and who has the authority to make requested technical and policy changes to the board.
There are Moderators here for that. Unfortunately there are a few who think that taking the Moderators to task for doing their job is something that is acceptable. Those are the times I step in.

Quote:

There are a number of small but annoying technical fixes needed here, and it just seems that the only time you're seen is when you swoop in to ban someone (deservedly or not).
Yup, and I've been working on many of them. Just because you don't see me actively posting doesn't mean I'm not working on projects and problems in the background. How do you think the forums get upgraded? And fixes aren't always necessarily quick or easy to implement.

Quote:

May I respectfully suggest that you take a few days yourself to consider what this does for your reputation?
What? I supposed to be bothered by what a few malcontents think of me? Sorry no.

What many fail to realize is that I provide this as a free service. You aren't required to pay or buy anything to post or read the forums. Show me another Traveller licensee that caters to all versions of the game as much as I have rather than keep the focus strictly on my own version of the game and limiting discussion of other versions to a single lumped forum.

Quote:

Please note that this is not intended as a personal attack on you, but as a helpful suggestion to improve the morale of the Citizens, a suggestion which you may implement or ignore as you wish.
I trust I will be permitted to air my view calmly without fear of reprisal.
Not taken as such, nor was Gallows. He just opened his mouth and stuck his foot in it in the wrong place. Think of it as arguing with a cop or backtalking him while he's giving you a ticket. Not the brightest thing in the world to do.

Had he chosen to start a new topic on it, there wouldn't have been a problem. Instead he chose to be a smartass at the wrong time and the wrong place.

There will be a lot more people pissed at me before this gets back under control I am sure. I've been very reluctant to ban individuals in the past, but the time has come for me to start wielding the ban hammer a bit more liberally. Maybe once people realize that there are consequences to acting like an ass they'll be a bit more reluctant to do so here in the future.

DaveChase December 1st, 2008 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter (Post 291352)

....
Any other takers?

Nope, but I have a few concerns.
Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter

....

That said, I take a fair share of the blame for that for allowing it to get to this level.

Well it stops. And you can help. Report these jackasses and if they continue their ways they will be gone. Permanently. I and the mods can't do it alone. You've got to help. You want a better CotI, help us get rid of the jerks who play these kind of games.

And that includes mods. Oh, but we never hear back about those complaint that have been reported. At least I haven't heard back once from you on my reports/complaint on a mod.
(Until I received your email reply today, and then you said that you had no problem with that mod.)
To everyone who has ever had a problem or is having a problem please report them no matter what their status on this board is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter
And if you take offense to anything I just said? Too bad. You are exactly the kind I want GONE from here.

Nope, I don't take offense to anything that you have said. I take offense to you not responding expect to nail someone for infractions. I take offense that you wont respond to any complaints (or concerns) about a mod.
I take offense that you tell us to email with our issues and weeks later we hear from you only because we have kept pushing.
A simple 'got your email and I will respond shortly', would be nice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter
...

If you make ad hominem and personal attacks on others be ready to get banned.

Sound reasonable
Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter
You want to harass my moderators, who frankly have a thankless job, you'll find yourself banned as well. You have a problem with my moderators, report the post. I get a copy of EVERY reported post.

Except you don't respond. You don't address the concerns or issues. Other than warning or banning the individual that complains about your mod.
I am not talking about general bullshit whines. I am talking about a complaint or issues that no other mod wants to handle and are waiting for you to respond.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hunter

....

And yes this is the *real* Hunter. I cannot believe there is some assinine theory going around that somehow I am not the same person typing this message that founded this company, created these forums, programmed GRiP and wrote the T20 rules. That has got to be about the most absurd conspiracy theory I've heard lately. Get real folks.

People change Hunter, and obviously you have.

I an't complaining because I got the warnings or infractions. I addressed that repeatedly in my PM's with mods and the reports.

A simple answer to my questions privately and I would have been sing high and loud as a normal user that you were the real Hunter.

Oh, and I read your email reply, Thanks for replying after all these weeks.
If you can't remember who helped you get in contact with the people who owned the FireFly license, how the hell can I believe that you are the same person from back then?
You cant remember who talked hours with you about licensing and got you scheduled time to talk with them about FireFly. Then something must of seriously happened to you in the last 4 years.

This only responding to shit like the above or someone getting out of hand has started to cause part of COTI's bad rep. You speak only of bad stuff then you only get known for bad stuff, no matter what good you have done or are currently doing.
If you address those with concerns privately then they would be the first ones who are not associated with you or this board to stand up for you. Most individuals on this board are afraid to speak up about you in any manner (not counting Mods). Because most of the time that they speak up the end up getting warned or banned. (it's your rep, whether full true or not.)

As for using the Hunter account. I have seen other places that have given access to a superusers accoung and posted as if they were that superuser because the superuser was too busy.

I am the doubter that Hunter is referring to. I am not the only one, I am just the only one who has been 'brave or stupid' enough to be public about it.

Hunter,
everyone who comes to COTI has other lives also. Everyone comes expecting something different. No one comes to be insulted or ignored. You have added to the stigma of these boards over the last year or so by not being public in a regular positive way.
Do we need you to hold our hands? NO
Do we need to feel the love? NO
But we do need to know and feel close/part of the COTI.That is one of the reasons besides it being Traveller that most people keep coming back.

If you want all of us that want to be more involved/interact with you to be a paying member, say so. I will get you a check in the mail today.

You are one of the reasons this board is popular. But when you rant and rave in public, you make others think that maybe there might be a better place to go. When a majority of the time you only post to ban, warn or threaten people, you make your board a place were others don't want to be.

If you had addressed my concern (along with a few others over the past months) privately, I don't think you would be having some the problems now that exist.

My professional and personal opinion.

Dave Chase

coliver988 December 1st, 2008 03:04 PM

While I try to keep away from the more...vigorous...responses, I actually have to sort of agree with those who believe Hunter's responses are over the top. No sign of anyone in charge for months or even years (or so it seems) at a time, then only to come down on people making a statement about priorities.

Yes, it may have been a smart-ass statement, but it was to the point as well. There are a LOT of things that should be taken care of before playing the bully pulpit angle. I came close to simply not returning to the forums due to that high-handed response. But the amount of enjoyment I DO get from the positive threads is worth the occasional grimace at people's behavior.

Yes, it is Hunter's forum. But to disappear for extended periods of time and appear to have a spasm about behavior that has been going on since that departure seems both childish and disingenuous. Add to that the apparent behavior* towards existing contracts and projects and then soliciting for new and additional material seems arrogant as well.

I second the notion that Hunter needs to designate someone to be in charge for the next time that he disappears for an extended time. Forums, as businesses, require a fair amount of attention if you want to keep things in line and people behaving well (and admittedly forums tend to bring out the worse in people, both in the members and apparently sometimes the administrators and owners).

Just my unsolicited 0.02Cr.

*and admittedly no one but those involved know the details, but from other threads on this very forum it does not appear to be a fair situation.

Starviking December 1st, 2008 05:45 PM

I'm all against personal attacks, especially those against Hunter. However, I do believe we all need to take a deep breath, calm down, and think about what would be the best future for CoTI.

I don't think the possibility of instant banning would help.

And personally,

Thanks for an excellent forum Hunter!

Rhialto the Marvelous December 1st, 2008 08:11 PM

I agree with coliver988.

Action needs to be taken, no doubt about that. But banning people is low on the to-do list.

DaveChase December 1st, 2008 08:32 PM

I have been talking with Hunter today
 
He is considering many different options/actions to do with COTI and the issues/concerns of members.

Whether or not he address them all and whether or not we agree with them all is another subject, but he is aware of many of them.

Check out my Hunter is Hunter thread for more of my opinion on this.

Dave Chase


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