Citizens of the Imperium

Citizens of the Imperium (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/index.php)
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-   -   Equus - feedback (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=38882)

flykiller March 16th, 2018 05:27 PM

Equus - feedback
 
feedback from the initial Equus IC thread. game concepts seldom survive initial contact with the players (and for that matter with the referee) so some commentary is in order after the first session. what you expected, what you didn't, what you understood and did not, what worked and what did not, whether you will or will not continue. I may or may not respond - some things, if they have to be explained, shouldn't be.

feel free. I am not easily offended and prefer open honesty and "I HATE YOU!" to lurking behind-the-scenes discontent. also another purpose of this thread is to inform other potential referees/players of what to pursue and avoid in their games, so sound off.

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What did we miss? Who was on board? What happened to the crew?
I believe in presenting the game as the characters experienced it. you may never know.

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What do you think we should have done differently?
what you should have done is entirely up to you. "could have" "would have" "should have" is part of the human experience. as an aside I don't always have any good idea what the characters "should" do, and even when I think something obviously should happen the players frequently do something else and make me run to catch up anyway.

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Would you like to see anything different in our play?
much of the game was carried on in the ooc thread. likely as all of you become used to each other and to how I perceive the game that this will decrease.

would you like to see anything different?

vegas March 16th, 2018 08:06 PM

Well, Fly, that is quite a judo-manuever; I ask for feedback/debriefing and you give next-to-none, and instead put it all back on us! ;)

Ok, fair enough. My feedback:

1) I loved it. I'm all in. That is first and foremost.

I was worried before play started about not being able to keep up, or I would find the game a burden, but on the contrary, I found the pace to be very, very slow, so instead I just got in my patient-like-the-Buddha mode and savored the waiting.

2) I got frustrated about in-game time. I knew this was a time-is-of-the-essence situation, so I asked for time marks from the NPC (which I thought was clever) and didn't get them. That really hurt. We lost so much time and didn't know it; that didn't seem reasonable. The PCs should have known sooner that so much time was passing.

I thought about "turning on a timer" in my vacc suit or looking at my watch, or something like that, after I learned that we weren't getting time calls, but decided not to bother at that point because 1) if you hadn't given time marks before, there was probably a reason, and 2) we were so screwed for time at that point it didn't really matter; we just had to go fast.

3) I got frustrated not really knowing how hard anything I was trying to do was going to be. I really wanted in idea a la DGP UTP or MgT task system of what was simple/routine/difficult etc. so I could have a sense of what my chances were of success at doing things before I tried them. Without that, It was hard to make meaningful choices, and instead pretty much everything was a black box.

4) I got frustrated about not being able to slow the game down when I tried to do that. I have mind specifically the period from when the Equus Gig told us to open the cargo doors and I said hold on, but never got a chance to make a decision. I wanted to ask questions to make sure Manus would still be OK and able to work after those doors were open before giving the go ahead to Tame, but events just took over and I never got a chance to understand my situation properly and give a go/no go to Tame.

Now maybe that is just what you, Fly, wanted. We were out of time, Manus couldn't do anything, and we just had to deal. So I rolled with it, but it was frustrating, nonetheless, especially when by contrast we then took so long to decide what Afran was going to do after that. It felt like time stood still for him, but flew by for Manus.

5) I got mad at myself about getting attacked in the bridge, and I really would like to know how you adjudicated that for future reference.

I was trying to "claim" a 0-level skill with animals, as I assert Tureded is my homeworld. I was trying to "earn" a boon (MgT-speak) or some positive DMs by spelling out my actions (i.e. what I hoped was "good" role play.)

Did any of that matter to you as a ref?

In retrospect it was totally the wrong thing to do because we lost 20 more minutes (IIRC) from the start of that action to just getting into port engineering, which seems like an eternity under the circumstances.

I could go on, but that is enough for now.

Did I mention I had a blast? Well, I did. Loved it.

I hope Manus wakes up soon... and isn't hurt as bad as he seems.

Ex_Pendable March 17th, 2018 12:28 AM

First, thank you for letting me be a part of this game.

This was somewhat different, in prior games a lot of the rolls and questions take place in the OOC thread.

Presentation was very good.

Will this game be continuing?

flykiller March 17th, 2018 01:02 AM

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Will this game be continuing?
yes. assuming of course that the players wish to continue. I viewed this first encounter as a simple introduction.

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I ask for feedback/debriefing and you give next-to-none, and instead put it all back on us!
by and large I see the referee as, well, as the referee, and the players as the actors. I set the scene, you act. thus my view of your actions carries less weight and yours of my presentation more.

vegas March 17th, 2018 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flykiller (Post 584264)
by and large I see the referee as, well, as the referee, and the players as the actors. I set the scene, you act. thus my view of your actions carries less weight and yours of my presentation more.

Yes, but...

... the session is over now. We are opening up a beer for the road, eating those last slices of pizza, and kibitzing some (or in my case, some more) before we head home. So at this point, I don't really care about what it "weighs", I'd just like to hear your thoughts along with everyone else's. Because it is fun to share. Because we might learn something.

Come on Fly, have a beer with us... and spill... :)

But if you want to keep it close to the vest, that is fine too. :cool:

Specifically to your "presentation", I thought you were awesome. A very simple game, yet very fun. You are a great writer. I had to learn to read more carefully and re-read a lot. It was great.

flykiller March 18th, 2018 05:18 PM

hoping Botcho, baktegon, and mike wightman kick in too.

mike wightman March 18th, 2018 05:37 PM

I've really enjoyed it :)

Now I want to get started on the next chapter :)

flykiller March 21st, 2018 12:51 AM

well, I guess light response here is a good thing ....

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I got frustrated about in-game time.
you pay very close attention to details, much more than I anticipated. I'll have to accomodate that.

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I really wanted in idea a la DGP UTP or MgT task system of what was simple/routine/difficult
I'm going by my own simple task-oriented system - routine/3+, unusual/6+, difficult/9+, very difficult/12+. basically if you're trained or experienced in a task then accomplishing routine tasks should be routine, etc. rather than try to follow objective rules I'll rate any given task intuitively based on the circumstances of the moment. since your character is a trained and experienced engineer then in his case I rolled right past certain difficutlies in the plant, and since you have no damage control experience I emphasized certain issues.

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got frustrated about not being able to slow the game down when I tried to do that.
it's a balancing act accomodating playing the details vs moving forward - not to mention the differences in attention and response rate between the players. in addition the clock was ticking, so I tried to tick with it.

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I was trying to "claim" a 0-level skill with animals, as I assert Tureded is my homeworld. I was trying to "earn" a boon (MgT-speak) or some positive DMs by spelling out my actions
spelling out actions is good, but sometimes actions are just subsumed in your skills. as for the "claim" and "boon", I don't know what those are.

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Did any of that matter to you as a ref?
it all matters, there's just the issue of how much I can accomodate in any one post.

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Did I mention I had a blast? Well, I did. Loved it.
then the game succeeded.

if anyone else cares to comment, feel free.

flykiller March 21st, 2018 12:51 AM

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Now I want to get started on the next chapter
roll call, who's in? I assume mike wightman, Ex_Pendable, and vegas are in.

vegas March 21st, 2018 01:47 AM

Yup, I'm in.

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Originally Posted by flykiller (Post 584411)
I'm going by my own simple task-oriented system...

I like your system. If I am wondering how hard something is in the future, maybe I'll ask if Manus thinks something is "routine" or "difficult" to accomplish and you could point me in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by flykiller
spelling out actions is good, but sometimes actions are just subsumed in your skills. as for the "claim" and "boon", I don't know what those are.

"Claim" in this case was just plain English. Maybe "assert" would have been a better choice of words. I was asserting that my PC homeworld is Turedad and he has some 0-level animal skills as a result. I would not cry if you called bullshit and gave me a null skill, but I was not too embarrassed to try to make the claim either (especially since I think I mentioned it to you in an OOC post before the game started).

As for "boon" that is MgT speak but maybe you have a similar concept, but maybe not. In that system that everything that is not a skill or an attribute gets considered together, and at ref's discretion, if considering all circumstances it is net positive, can give a "boon" or net negative give a "bane" die. A boon die means roll 3 dice and keep the higher 2. A bane die is roll 3 keep the lower 2. Just another way to modify the roll than a straight DM. Here is the key and what I was angling for: among various considerations "good role play" is a reason for a boon.

I just was trying to get that damn thing off the bridge and I didn't want to have a -3DM (or whatever you might use) for null skill, and perhaps an unnecessarily hard roll. So I tried those two things (claiming a background 0-level skill and extra role play description) I was wondering how you called it as the ref. I'm still not sure I know, but it doesn't sound like any of it did any good.

And Rosebud tried to eat me. Bad flower!

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then the game succeeded.
I'd say so.


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