Citizens of the Imperium

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-   -   ANNIC NOVA: Balance of Power Shift? (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=4002)

graymask1120 May 19th, 2006 01:16 PM

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere.

So, I'm rereading AN the other week, as there's something about it that bugs me, but I don't know what.

Then I find it: no LHy in the drive, and no fuel tankage...My brain working the way it does, I start thinking:

*If the AN uses a capacitor bank to run its Jump drive, and all it needs is energy, and based on the apparent dimensions of the drive unit and capacitor bank on the deckplans -- why not install multiple J-Drive/Capacitor bank units?

*Doing so would allow a ship with three separate J-3 drive units (for ex) to make three consecutive J3's(9 parsecs, total) in a little over 3 weeks before needing to recharge.

All that is required is that the ship much have c.3-4 weeks of consumables aboard.

The only unkown is whether the capacitors can hold the charge for that length of time.

....."Suppressed Technology"© anyone? I wonder what the Zho's would pay for that? [img]graemlins/file_22.gif[/img]

aramis May 19th, 2006 01:59 PM

AN is the best argument against "Hydrogen Bubbles" put forth to explain the fuel usage.

graymask1120 May 19th, 2006 02:49 PM

I always disliked that explanation. I was willing to accept the fuel-guzzling option, but the whole "bubble" idea just sounded too far out.

Whipsnade May 19th, 2006 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aramis:
AN is the best argument against "Hydrogen Bubbles" put forth to explain the fuel usage.
Aramis,

I never liked certain aspects of the hydrogen bubble idea too, especially the DGP-inspired nonsese about thousands of tiny parts in a hull grid squirting out hydrogen around the ship.

IMTU there is a hydrogen bubble of sorts. A ship's jump drive 'injects' a 'modified' version of hydrogen into the proper jump space dimension to form a 'blister' or 'bubble' or 'buboe' that 'ruptures' into normal space and then swallows up the ship.

As for Annic Nova, I only ran it twice and then heavily modified. AN is the first adventure after all, like Leviathan it's ur-Traveller. It simply doesn't 'fit' into later CT canon.

IMTU I never really tackled AN's drives but IMTU, as in canon, there are different ways to 'skin' the jump 'cat'. The jump drive in the rules is just the bog standard jump drive used by 99.99999% of vessels. To use a poor analogy, it's 'Windows' and some people do use Mac and Linux and others. We know about differing fuel requirements; i.e. the early Terran 'fuel hog' drive. We know about diffeent material requirments; i.e. the early Vargr 'barium' drive. We even 'know' about fuelless drives; i.e. there is nothing in canon that says the early Hiver 'meltdown' drive used fuel and the Sparklers use a psionic-based drive.

Annic Nova's drives are just another way to jump. Some aspect about them doesn't measure up well against the bog standard jump drive. Perhaps they need more 'tuning' between jumps. Perhaps they can't use jump governors so the same energy charge is always required. Perhaps there are mental or physical side effects. Who knows? The drive works, it just isn't preferred over the standard drive for whatever reason might work in YTU.


Have fun,
Bill

parmasson May 19th, 2006 10:49 PM

I like Bill’s solution. Call the A.N. differently “teched”
Or we can call it TL-X

Unknown technology. Perhaps really high perhaps not.

Point is that repairs will be nearly impossible and just learning to operate the machine will be tough. Computers will not accept Imperial Standard software and the like. Hmmm story ideas . . .

Supplement Four May 19th, 2006 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
I never liked certain aspects of the hydrogen bubble idea too, especially the DGP-inspired nonsese about thousands of tiny parts in a hull grid squirting out hydrogen around the ship.
Bill, just FYI. The SOM doesn't speak to the jump bubble being created by hydrogen. It's not a plasma bubble. It's an energy bubble (electro-magnetic and graviton energy).

Laryssa May 20th, 2006 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Aramis:
AN is the best argument against "Hydrogen Bubbles" put forth to explain the fuel usage.

Aramis,

I never liked certain aspects of the hydrogen bubble idea too, especially the DGP-inspired nonsese about thousands of tiny parts in a hull grid squirting out hydrogen around the ship.

IMTU there is a hydrogen bubble of sorts. A ship's jump drive 'injects' a 'modified' version of hydrogen into the proper jump space dimension to form a 'blister' or 'bubble' or 'buboe' that 'ruptures' into normal space and then swallows up the ship.

As for Annic Nova, I only ran it twice and then heavily modified. AN is the first adventure after all, like Leviathan it's ur-Traveller. It simply doesn't 'fit' into later CT canon.

IMTU I never really tackled AN's drives but IMTU, as in canon, there are different ways to 'skin' the jump 'cat'. The jump drive in the rules is just the bog standard jump drive used by 99.99999% of vessels. To use a poor analogy, it's 'Windows' and some people do use Mac and Linux and others. We know about differing fuel requirements; i.e. the early Terran 'fuel hog' drive. We know about diffeent material requirments; i.e. the early Vargr 'barium' drive. We even 'know' about fuelless drives; i.e. there is nothing in canon that says the early Hiver 'meltdown' drive used fuel and the Sparklers use a psionic-based drive.

Annic Nova's drives are just another way to jump. Some aspect about them doesn't measure up well against the bog standard jump drive. Perhaps they need more 'tuning' between jumps. Perhaps they can't use jump governors so the same energy charge is always required. Perhaps there are mental or physical side effects. Who knows? The drive works, it just isn't preferred over the standard drive for whatever reason might work in YTU.


Have fun,
Bill
</font>[/QUOTE]maybe the Vilani were up to something, they created a new Jump technology, and they didn't tell the Third Imperium about it, that's why it always ran away when encountered, then some disease finally killed the ship's crew while they were in jump space. The Ship's autopilot took over when the ANNIC NOVA precipitated into normal space and inserted the starship into orbit around the nearest Gas Giant. the secret has to do with virtual matter. Maybe the jump drive extracts vitual protons from the quantum foam by isolating their negative counter parts. Perhaps the negative matter twins of the protons are stored somewhere inside the unorthadox Jump Drives. Now negative matter has negative momentum, perhaps like charges attract with the negative matter protons and the clump into a ball inside the jump drive. The ball is discharged when the ship emerges from jump space.

Whipsnade May 20th, 2006 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WJP:
Bill, just FYI. The SOM doesn't speak to the jump bubble being created by hydrogen.
WJP,

Just FYI, read what I actually wrote.

I wrote "DGP-INSPRIRED. Not "DGP said this" or "DGP said that", but "DGP-inspired" as in "DGP's work in SOM inspired the idea of a bubble that many people in the hobby now use feel is a hydrogen bubble."

Getting back on topic...

Annic Nova uses a different type of jump drive. We know there are different ways to 'skin' the jump 'cat' because canon gives us a few examples. AN uses a jump drive that is simply non-standard.

Why it 'lost out' to the standard jump drive is unknown but we've pletny of Real World examples of 'duels' between technologies of somewhat equal promise in which the loser all but disappears from the scene. ForEx: before we all switched to DVD players, how many of you had a Betamax VCR?

Because the 'flaws' AN's jump drive has compared to standard jump drive are not detailed, we all can make up whatever 'flaws' suit out personal TUs the best.


Have fun,
Bill

DaveChase May 20th, 2006 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
Getting back on topic...

Annic Nova uses a different type of jump drive. We know there are different ways to 'skin' the jump 'cat' because canon gives us a few examples. AN uses a jump drive that is simply non-standard.

Why it 'lost out' to the standard jump drive is unknown but we've pletny of Real World examples of 'duels' between technologies of somewhat equal promise in which the loser all but disappears from the scene. ForEx: before we all switched to DVD players, how many of you had a Betamax VCR?

Because the 'flaws' AN's jump drive has compared to standard jump drive are not detailed, we all can make up whatever 'flaws' suit out personal TUs the best.


Have fun,
Bill

I consider the drives a different tech. Human nature makes us compare something new to something that we know. [img]smile.gif[/img]

First there was cannons and mortars then first hand held blackpowder weapon it was called a hand cannon not a rifle or pistol [img]smile.gif[/img]

I would suggest to consider the AN drive a different tech and possibly TL17 ie. if they need to fix it you now have a TL difference of at least 2 higher and alien/unknown tech so it is hard. You better treat AN well, of course some people like abuse and some people like cuddling, so what actually does AN drive need in regular maintanence. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Dave Chase

Laryssa May 20th, 2006 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bill Cameron:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by WJP:
Bill, just FYI. The SOM doesn't speak to the jump bubble being created by hydrogen.

WJP,

Just FYI, read what I actually wrote.

I wrote "DGP-INSPRIRED. Not "DGP said this" or "DGP said that", but "DGP-inspired" as in "DGP's work in SOM inspired the idea of a bubble that many people in the hobby now use feel is a hydrogen bubble."

Getting back on topic...

Annic Nova uses a different type of jump drive. We know there are different ways to 'skin' the jump 'cat' because canon gives us a few examples. AN uses a jump drive that is simply non-standard.

Why it 'lost out' to the standard jump drive is unknown but we've pletny of Real World examples of 'duels' between technologies of somewhat equal promise in which the loser all but disappears from the scene. ForEx: before we all switched to DVD players, how many of you had a Betamax VCR?

Because the 'flaws' AN's jump drive has compared to standard jump drive are not detailed, we all can make up whatever 'flaws' suit out personal TUs the best.


Have fun,
Bill
</font>[/QUOTE]Maybe the flaws are what killed the crew. Maybe the drive is unsafe for living creatures, oh it works a few times, but there are certain radiations in jump space that a hydrogen jump bubble protects the crew from. Hydrogen is a good shield against cosmic rays for instance, as hydrogen consists of protons and when cosmic rays hit protons no secondary particals are fissioned off as there would be if cosmic rays hit lead for instance. This property of hydrogen may be why it is useful in standard jump drives, it maybe that jump drives work without hydrogen, its just that the crew arrives dead. Maybe Annic Nova found a way to create a shield against Jump Space radiation that doesn't involved hydrogen, maybe it involves some thing like a magnetic field instead. The magnetic field works most of the time, but perhaps not as reliably as a hydrogen bubble, and perhaps the crew survives a number of jumps, but over time their radiation exposure accumulates and eventually the get sick and die. Perhaps that could be the new reason why the PCs find the ANNIC NOVA derelict andf its crew dead. The drive is basically experimental, and the crew onboard was basically using themselves as guinea pigs or perhaps they didn't realize the danger as they survived the first few jumps ok. The company that makes it keeps the project a secret to protect it from the prying corporate eyes of their compeditors. Unfortunately their testing with animals wasn't rigorous enough and they started testing it with a human crew way too soon. The Adventure in the Classic Short Adventure's book can pretty much be used they way it is in the book under this assumption, its just that the cause of the crew's death is different. If the PCs are smart they will investigate what killed the crew first before the salvage and claim the ship. the fact that it uses a non-standard and apparently experimental jump drive should give them pause. If they take the ANNIC NOVA in for servicing, they find that nobody they know knows anything about the type of engine it has. of course their will be other corporate and national eyes that will be very interested in how it works. The PCs might meet up with agents of various powers some friendly who will offer money for it and others more inclined to steal and perhaps eliminate witnesses. There are alot of possible adventure seeds arising out of this experimental starship.


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