Citizens of the Imperium

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-   -   OTU Only: What Kind of Ships Does Traveller Need More of? (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=37047)

flykiller December 6th, 2016 07:02 PM

Quote:

We need a survey companion to the Suleiman and Donosev. There are already a few 1000+ dTon designs. What's needed is a "bridge" between those and the Donosev.
what would they do that the donosev and 1k+ don't? and donosev already is crewed at 10, the npc's start to add up in larger boats.

Quote:

We need a jump6 courier design. Not an Imperiallines reboot, but the small(ish) data carrier the nobility, government, megacorps, and military used instead of the x-boat system.
I'll bet there's dozens of those right now. probably one of the first things that anyone who draws up ships attempts.

flykiller December 6th, 2016 07:27 PM

Links to all the Ship Designs in this Forum

Whipsnade December 6th, 2016 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flykiller (Post 554251)
what would they do that the donosev and 1k+ don't? and donosev already is crewed at 10, the npc's start to add up in larger boats.


Well, the Broadswords carry two cutters and four modules for starters. Four times the cargo capacity too plus quarters for 45. You can also fiddle with the ship's performance to increase usable volume.

Lots of NPCs true, but a good hull for a large focused survey effort instead of the Donosev's "send-a-drone-we-don't-really-have-rules-for" method.

Quote:

I'll bet there's dozens of those right now.
How many are published? I know of one. It's in GT and therefore uses a completely different design system.

I've got one, but that doesn't help you. You've got one, but that doesn't help me. We need one for all of us.

I've got hand penciled plans on graph paper for the Vargr and Zho designs I mentioned. I've got the same kind of plans for a 600 dTon, flying wing, IISS planetary surveyor and the jump2 Type-R too. None of them are of any use for anybody because none of them are any good for anybody other than me.

McCoy and the gang at JBE have a pretty damn good track record for Traveller and other RPG systems. Good writing, good art, good diagrams, good presentation, you name it. If they put out a jump6 courier deck plan it will be a good one which many people can use.

Grav_Moped December 7th, 2016 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flykiller (Post 554251)
I'll bet there's dozens of those [Jump 6 couriers] right now. probably one of the first things that anyone who draws up ships attempts.

Guilty.

The thing is, under LBB2 rules, they'll all be 600Td, J6/2G; most will have 2 turrets. They will also only have fuel for two weeks of power plant operation.

They can't be built smaller than that. At 400Td, a J6 ship is just a big, fast, Xboat. There isn't room for even a 1G LBB2 M-drive, and even then it requires exploiting the Xboat fuel loophole.

And anything much bigger than 600Td can't properly be termed a "courier".


Off-topic insight: While working out a scenario involving a not-quite-derelict ship with "just barely enough" fuel tankage, I figured out why the minimum power plant fuel duration was set at 1 month:

Misjumps.

Misjump duration is 1D weeks, which means that if you only have 1 week of fuel (as is the case with Xboats), 5 times out of 6 a misjump will last longer than you can keep the Jump field running. And then Bad Things Happen. With a month's worth of fuel, your odds go up to 2:1 in your favor that you'll make it through.

aramis December 7th, 2016 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grav_Moped (Post 554273)
Guilty.

The thing is, under LBB2 rules, they'll all be 600Td, J6/2G; most will have 2 turrets. They will also only have fuel for two weeks of power plant operation.

They can't be built smaller than that. At 400Td, a J6 ship is just a big, fast, Xboat. There isn't room for even a 1G LBB2 M-drive, and even then it requires exploiting the Xboat fuel loophole.

And anything much bigger than 600Td can't properly be termed a "courier".


Off-topic insight: While working out a scenario involving a not-quite-derelict ship with "just barely enough" fuel tankage, I figured out why the minimum power plant fuel duration was set at 1 month:

Misjumps.

Misjump duration is 1D weeks, which means that if you only have 1 week of fuel (as is the case with Xboats), 5 times out of 6 a misjump will last longer than you can keep the Jump field running. And then Bad Things Happen. With a month's worth of fuel, your odds go up to 2:1 in your favor that you'll make it through.

J6 under HG-80 at 100 Td TL15
020 Bridge
007 Model/6
006 PP 6
007 JD 6
002 MD 1
006 PP Fuel 4 weeks (1.5 T for 4 weeks
060 JFuel
004 SR x1
totals 112 tons... of which we can shed only 8.5... 2 by switching to a half stateroom, 4.5 by having only the fuel for the week in jump (CT says 1d6 days battery power, so we can get by on that), and 2 by shedding the MD. Can't be built RAW.

Ignoring the roundup requirement of the rules...
we can get an "express boat" type J6 design at 122.
we can get a J6 P6 M1 4 week PP Fuel at 163.5 tons.

With the round up to full ton requirement, Express J6 P6 M0 1Week is 125 Td, and J6 P6 M1 4 Week is 175 Td.

Oh, and the "X-Boat Loophole"? it isn't one under pre-81 editions of CT. It's the standard. Computers can be smaller, too; the programs for Jump take less space, and so a 1/bis can generate and run Jump 6.
Let's see
020 Bridge
001 Model 1/bis (Generate, Maneuver, Jump6)
020 JD C
060 JFuel... Ok, not at 100 Td.

Try 200 Td...
020 Bridge
001 Model 1/bis
035 JD F=2
004 PP A =1
001 MD A=1
120 JFuel
010 PFuel
008 2x SR (P, N, E requ.)

199 Td. 1 Td left for cargo. Valid Bk2-77 design, military crew Double occupancy.

Note that Bk2-81, you can't build it validly until 800 Td... because the X-Boat Exception isn't actually in the construction rules...

dmccoy1693 December 7th, 2016 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flykiller (Post 554232)
what is a "larger player-focused" ship?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whipsnade (Post 554248)
  • The bigger the ship, the more likely the ship becomes a location instead of "Our ship". Past a certain size, a ship becomes little more than an impersonal office building, mall, or base.
  • The bigger the crew, the less likely the ship design will be used for RPG play. While we talk about it all the time, how many sessions have you actually run in which the players ran multiple PCs?
  • While the "player-focused" spectrum has a large gray region, the larger a ship or it's crew the less likely it can be player-focused.

What Whipsnade said. This is why I capped it at 1000 tons. Any larger and it feels (at least in my games) that it is a location.

In general, I think of a player-focused ship as having 3-10 state rooms, common area, and a jump drive in the 2 to 4 range. Over all it has a relatively simple, easy to remember design. The three quintessential player ships in my mind are the Scout Type S, the A2 Far Trader, and the Type R (even if its J drive is less than I'd like) with an honorable mention being the merc cruiser for military focused campaigns. Ok and the Survey Scout as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whipsnade (Post 554248)
  • Vargr 800 dTon frigate.

Have you seen this yet? :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whipsnade (Post 554248)
Specific
  • We need a smaller or more conventionally shaped lab ship.
  • We need a jump2 version of the Type-R subsidized merchant. Same cargo and passenger capacity, just jump2.
  • We need a survey companion to the Suleiman and Donosev. There are already a few 1000+ dTon designs. What's needed is a "bridge" between those and the Donosev.
  • We need a jump6 courier design. Not an Imperiallines reboot, but the small(ish) data carrier the nobility, government, megacorps, and military used instead of the x-boat system.

Variants
  • The IISS owns a few Leviathans. How do they differ from the merchant cruisers depicted in A:4? You needn't show the entire ship, just the changed areas.
  • In IISS service the Suleiman's rear area and upper gallery contain mission specific gear like comm equipment, data banks, survey sensors, labs, etc. What do they look like? What are their capabilities? Again, no need to show the entire ship, just the changed compartments.

Aliens
  • Vargr 200dTon courier, 600 dTon packet, and 800 dTon frigate.
  • Zhodani 800 dTon liner.

*Scribbles notes*

Ishmael December 7th, 2016 09:29 AM

Something other than the 'standard' ships that keep getting done and re-done and re-done all the time.
Something low tech, like from when jump drive was first invented
Something low tech from before artificial gravity made ships boat-like so that space travel is different than an ocean cruise or a jaunt in a PC's RV road-trip.

Something where zero-G skill actually means something and is a true mark of being a spacer.

Something that can reasonably be built in the Spinward Marches ( only 4 type A,tech 15 starports )
Something than follows the 'average' Imperial tech of 12.

PC's are more likely to get a rusted out old Oldsmobile Delta 88 than a shining new-off-the-showroom Bentley or even a gently used BMW 7 series.

dmccoy1693 December 7th, 2016 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whipsnade (Post 554257)
McCoy and the gang at JBE have a pretty damn good track record for Traveller and other RPG systems. Good writing, good art, good diagrams, good presentation, you name it. If they put out a jump6 courier deck plan it will be a good one which many people can use.

Let me just say I want to have this statement framed. Thank you.

dmccoy1693 December 7th, 2016 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramis (Post 554275)
J6 under HG-80 at 100 Td TL15
...
Can't be built RAW.

MGT2e rules are a little more leeway, and I built a 500 ton version for a corporation, but I wasn't happy with it so I put it at 600 tons and it is more comfortable, but still really cramped.

atpollard December 7th, 2016 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whipsnade (Post 554248)
Interesting poll. Sundry comments:

General
  • The bigger the ship, the more likely the ship becomes a location instead of "Our ship". Past a certain size, a ship becomes little more than an impersonal office building, mall, or base.
  • The bigger the crew, the less likely the ship design will be used for RPG play. While we talk about it all the time, how many sessions have you actually run in which the players ran multiple PCs?
  • While the "player-focused" spectrum has a large gray region, the larger a ship or it's crew the less likely it can be player-focused.
  • While specific or special designs are nice, they can only be used in specific or special situations. We see a lot of generic designs because generic designs can be used more often.

Beerfume filled a lot of holes during his A-to-Z challenge this year. He gifted us with a smaller yacht, a new x-boat station, and a small trader among other things. That being said:

Specific
  • We need a smaller or more conventionally shaped lab ship.
  • We need a jump2 version of the Type-R subsidized merchant. Same cargo and passenger capacity, just jump2.
  • We need a survey companion to the Suleiman and Donosev. There are already a few 1000+ dTon designs. What's needed is a "bridge" between those and the Donosev.
  • We need a jump6 courier design. Not an Imperiallines reboot, but the small(ish) data carrier the nobility, government, megacorps, and military used instead of the x-boat system.

Variants
  • The IISS owns a few Leviathans. How do they differ from the merchant cruisers depicted in A:4? You needn't show the entire ship, just the changed areas.
  • In IISS service the Suleiman's rear area and upper gallery contain mission specific gear like comm equipment, data banks, survey sensors, labs, etc. What do they look like? What are their capabilities? Again, no need to show the entire ship, just the changed compartments.

Aliens
  • Vargr 200dTon courier, 600 dTon packet, and 800 dTon frigate.
  • Zhodani 800 dTon liner.

Since I can't just do a 'like', this was a GREAT post.
Lots of useful specifics that addressed exactly what was being asked and some holes spotted that I hadn't thought of.

Well done.


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