Citizens of the Imperium

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-   -   Vent-Rant MegaTraveller what I hate about it. (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=23743)

Murph January 2nd, 2011 05:25 PM

Vent-Rant MegaTraveller what I hate about it.
 
Rant on:

What I hate about MegaTraveller:

1) System design got way, way over complicated and unless you are a gearhead, it got in the way. Book 2 and High Guard was good enough for me. Striker made it miserable, but fixed the terrible combat system. It became impossible to design a worthwhile 6g/J4 ship. Also it was almost too hard to design a ship without a spreadsheet.
2) Kill the Emperor, kill the Imperium- I realize that the 3I was getting a little stale, but what about the other sectors? Antares? Reavers Deep? etc?
3) Vargr being able to take over anything like sectors, just too much for me to swallow, even system defense forces could take the corsairs and small empires. Sorry can't believe this.
4) Aslan swamping of the Trojan Reach, sorry, they are coming in older ships, with their families, not gonna happen.
5) Virus- *runs screaming in disgust*!
6) Everything else got way-way complicated and got in the way of running a good game.
7) Combat system never got better, just more complex. I ended up using Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0.


What I liked about MT:

1) High Guard Character Generation- finally Mercenary/High Guard/Scouts and Merchant Prince Chargen in one place.
2) System Generation updates
3) Not much else- more as reference material for CT.

Keeping it civil and polite, can we say what we DISLIKED the most about MegaTraveller? And those few things we liked?

far-trader January 2nd, 2011 07:17 PM

Briefly, my top one of each:

Disliked (I hate to say hate ;) ): The errata. That alone pretty much if not completely killed our game. We were gung-ho to play but by the time we figured out and collected enough errata corrections to be able to use the rules we had moved on as I recall.

Liked (a lot really): The production quality (editing/errata aside). It was a lovely game set, with beautiful books, lots of great supplements. Splashy colour cover art, good (mostly) interior B&W art. Fairly well organized and collected. It was what it promised to be, CT+ updated. All the old CT goodness, many of the common house-rules cum official, in one spiffy package.

...if the errata problem hadn't been there we'd have played the thing to death, and I daresay it would have had a much longer life. We might all still be playing it and there'd have been no T4, TNE, T20, MgT or anything else. We'd just be into the 7th printing of MT with a gazillion supplements :D

PFVA63 January 2nd, 2011 07:23 PM

Hi
 
I didn't think MT was bad or anything, but to be honest, for me one thing that did stick out to me was the artwork. Iit wasn't that I thought it was bad or anything, but rather a lot of the images included in the books didn't really correspond to how I had already been envisioning some stuff, which kind of made it harder for me to kind of relate MT stuff to what I hard already been using.

Also some of the layout was a bit too condensed and cluttered for me to easily find stuff.

Regards

PF

HG_B January 2nd, 2011 08:30 PM

My biggest gripe: "Out of the box" is was unplayable due to the worst editing of any major game I've ever purchased.

AFTER I'd gathered all the errata, it turned out to be the best Trav version to date (not counting the 'virus' psychosis). This was years later though.

robject January 2nd, 2011 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murph (Post 364857)
1) System design got way, way over complicated and unless you are a gearhead, it got in the way.

I think the level of detail was OK: it was the roughness that made it impossible. If it had gotten some tuning it would have been near perfect IMO.

mike wightman January 3rd, 2011 03:10 AM

Virus wasn't MT - virus was introduced to wipe the slate so that TNE could be born.

If you managed to pick up one of the very last printings of the game then you won't know what all this talk of errata is since most of it was now incorporated into the text.

As an avid fan I bought it as soon as I could (players manual as a separate book with different binding).

I hated the PM cover.

I hated the combat system.

When I bought the boxed set to get the 2 books I was missing (shame they didn't change the PM cover) I was delighted.

It was then the penny dropped. The good folk at GDW had got some other folks(DGP) to actually write this game for them and there wasn't much of an editing system.

Plus once again I am convinced that no one at GDW actually read their own rules thoroughly enough because the DGP folks went back to using the original CT jump paradigm of full fuel use for a jump regardless of distance. Despite the fact that this had been changed in HG1, HG2, CT revised, TTB, SE. So chalk that one up as a hate.

I cannot fault the IE.

And Hard Times remains one of my favourite eras to set a game in.

McPerth January 3rd, 2011 04:28 AM

First of all I must say MT is my favorite version of Traveller.

Althought that doesn't mind I see no flaws on it:

- Trade system: I find it too easy to manipulate and get rich unless you play with Don McKinney's variant (see my entry on MT trae variant Thread, Dec 8th). I already hated it at Merchant Prince.

- Combat system: anyway I've always used a variant of AHL combat system.

- Ship combat: I already hated it at HG because the easyness to capture and the nearly impossibility to destroy a ship (I put some entries about that on the threads 'all warships should have drop tanks' and 'using captured ships', on the Fleet forums this site). I miss a ship combat system for roleplaying, as this one is mostly strategic.

- Neither I liked the fragmentation of the Imperium, but I concede it gave a more interesting playing background, for it was less stable, at least for those players who like exploration and conflict.

- I agree some of the background history was unbelievable (the Vargr advance, etc), at least with HG rules, where the difference in TL (and so computers) is vital on the TH and penetrate tables.

- They seem to assume that any player was familiar with CT rules, for some parts were not usable without falling back on them (e.g. robots).

What I most liked:

- Character generation system (once errata are used).

- Ship/vehicle design system (also, with errata used).

- Background supplements.

- Task system.

- Jack of All Trades skill treatment (easily transferable to any version)

I don't even mention the virus, as I see as a form of killing MT to make way for TNE. I really don't think it was the end designers envisioned initially, as in some supplements (e.g. Hard Times) there are references that seem to point to a reunification.

Most of what I've said here is also explained (some of it with more detail) on my entry on thread 'how badly whould I get flamed...' on Dec 12th, in this MT forum.

aramis January 3rd, 2011 04:32 AM

Mike: Virus was introduced in the last MT-dress product, which also was the the first with a TNE line stock number: Survival Margin: Gateway to the New Era.

robject January 3rd, 2011 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McPerth (Post 364897)
- Trade system: I find it too easy to manipulate and get rich unless you play with Don McKinney's variant (see my entry on MT trae variant Thread, Dec 8th). I already hated it at Merchant Prince.

I find Merchant Prince and its children "not very fun". Just an impression.

Quote:

What I most liked:

- Character generation system (once errata are used).

- Ship/vehicle design system (also, with errata used).

- Background supplements.

- Task system.

- Jack of All Trades skill treatment (easily transferable to any version)
Many of these were very good, and all (even trade) showed promise, but I felt some lacked a spark.

mike wightman January 3rd, 2011 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aramis (Post 364899)
Mike: Virus was introduced in the last MT-dress product, which also was the the first with a TNE line stock number: Survival Margin: Gateway to the New Era.

Yes I know, it sort of bridged the gap between paradigms.

And it was also written up in Challenge magazine.

Fact remains that Virus was invented to herald TNE.

If GDW hadn't decided to adopt their lousy d20 house system for Traveller I doubt if the setting would have changed so radically, Virus wouldn't have been needed.

But then there is also the thought that GDW had decided that the MT era itself was pants so they wanted to flatten it and move on. After all we got a tech paradigm shift too...


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