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-   -   [DGP Worldbuilder] Sub-Law Level Definitions? (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=39650)

Kilgs December 14th, 2018 10:41 AM

[DGP Worldbuilder] Sub-Law Level Definitions?
 
I was finally working through DGP's Worldbuilder system and I really like the "personal" law level and tech idea.

But where can you find definitions for them? Like Trade? Civil Law?

Is it just a guideline and flesh it out on your own or are these contained somewhere or in some other book?

GypsyComet December 14th, 2018 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilgs (Post 596536)
are these contained somewhere or in some other book?

Those breakdowns are distinctive to the three world building DGP books (Grand Survey and Grand Census for CT, and the WBH for MT).

Kilgs December 14th, 2018 04:41 PM

So I need Grand Survey and Grand Census? Are they contained in just one of those...?

Supplement Four December 14th, 2018 04:53 PM

Grand Census and Grand Survey were the first set of books written for CT. The World Builder's Handbook is the MT version of the rules.

I've got both. I'd have to dig them out, but IIRC, there's a large section on Law the describes everything. Just keep looking in the book. It's there.

GypsyComet December 14th, 2018 10:47 PM

Either the Grand pair OR the WBH will have complete coverage, as the WBH compiled the two older books and updated them to MT.

Supplement Four December 15th, 2018 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GypsyComet (Post 596568)
Either the Grand pair OR the WBH will have complete coverage, as the WBH compiled the two older books and updated them to MT.

IIRC, they both have the complete coverage. I know the CT books do, and I'm almost as sure about the WBH. It's in there, under the Law section.

Kilgs December 15th, 2018 03:06 AM

Will dig or read completely), thanks!

GypsyComet December 15th, 2018 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supplement Four (Post 596573)
IIRC, they both have the complete coverage.

That's what both of us were trying to say, yes.

Supplement Four December 15th, 2018 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GypsyComet (Post 596576)
That's what both of us were trying to say, yes.

I was agreeing with you!

Supplement Four December 15th, 2018 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilgs (Post 596536)
I was finally working through DGP's Worldbuilder system and I really like the "personal" law level and tech idea.

But where can you find definitions for them? Like Trade? Civil Law?

I dug out my WBH. What you want is on page 57.

kilemall December 15th, 2018 04:15 PM

So what is a sub law level?

Supplement Four December 15th, 2018 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilemall (Post 596592)
So what is a sub law level?

Can you give me a page number on where you are seeing that? I'll look it up.

Hyphen December 15th, 2018 09:27 PM

I think they are referred to as "Detailed Law Levels", rather than "Sub-Law Levels", but that's a minor quibble. ;-)

The first check regarding "Law-Related Details" is for uniformity of law: does the Law Level apply to the entire planet? (c.v. "Rescue on Ruie", JTAS 1).

The second is to flesh out the Law Profile, where the simple (simplistic? ;-) ) Law Level is broken down into the following "Detailed Law Levels":

Overall - Weapons | Trade | Criminal Law | Civil Law | Personal Freedom

e.g. 9-B76AA
(all WBH, p 82)

Then the referee applies their understanding of the basic Law Level rules to each component, when necessary. Law Level is defined as " The degree to which the law interferes with individual actions" (WBH, p 57).

And the WBH also says, "It is more difficult to make precise rules for law levels than for government types. the law related details given on the charts are largely suggestions -- you as referee must rely on your sense of the game to temper any law-related details." (ibid)

IOW, you can use the law level breakdowns as target numbers to roll against whenever you think the PCs are doing something you don't want them to do, or you want to chuck in some "heat" to keep them honest.

Law Level, therefore, is tempered by the speed of plot.

Supplement Four December 15th, 2018 10:25 PM

I haven't looked it up myself, but Hyphen is usually correct.

kilemall December 16th, 2018 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supplement Four (Post 596595)
Can you give me a page number on where you are seeing that? I'll look it up.


I don't have the book in question, I was riffing off the OP question.

kilemall December 16th, 2018 06:31 PM

Hmm, I did consider having a 'random' law level setup, where the LL is the basic roll to see whether something is illegal or not. So you could have a society where murder is legal but double parking is not, and the LL is more an 'average' then a hard constant.

Kilgs December 17th, 2018 04:50 PM

Yeah. They all have the same entries... nothing very concrete. I was just trying to figure out what the various levels of Civil Law, Criminal Law etc. Just looking for more detail. I guess I'll just make it up then!

Hyphen January 6th, 2019 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supplement Four (Post 596611)
I haven't looked it up myself, but Hyphen is usually correct.

Nicest thing I've heard all day. ;-)

Kilgs January 8th, 2019 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyphen (Post 597798)
Nicest thing I've heard all day. ;-)

And accurate as well ;) Regarding the Target number mechanic.

(I chuckled on this a couple days later as I was whining about examples for various law levels regarding civil and such... and I'm an attorney. Sooooo laaaaaazy.)

Hyphen January 13th, 2019 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kilgs (Post 597850)
I'm an attorney. Sooooo laaaaaazy.)

Best Traveller lawyer joke from my Taglines page:

Glenn Grant reports on this query sent to himself and Roderick Darroch Elliot:

Ross Coburn: "Either of you have my Referee's Companion? It's the same size/shape as the three MT core books, similar bad cover art, shows a guy on a scout in the water about to get et. I've been tearing up the apartment looking for it. . . ."

Darroch: "Sorry. I had to borrow it to use as an exhibit. I'm trying to use it to prove the existence of psionics so I can get my client off on a defense of pre-emptive self-defense."

Glenn's eye-rolling comment on this exchange: "Lord help us all."

Condottiere January 13th, 2019 10:41 AM

The client was Tom Cruise.


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