Citizens of the Imperium

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the angle January 10th, 2010 06:09 PM

Sling bullets: Str bonus applies to all missile weapon damage except: crossbows (never) and bows (unless they're specially made).

Dagger proficiency covers stabbing and throwing. The same goes for any weapon that can be wielded in melee or thrown, such as javelins, hammers, axes, and spears. The DM could make a case for splitting them, but it's not intended that way.

As to swords, you're right, there's no indication. I'd go with one of two things. The default would be level 12, because that's the minimum level needed to cast enchant an item. The rules, however, allow one wizard to cast enchant an item and another to cast the actual spells into the item. It's possible that both light and protection from evil could have been placed on the item by a 1st-level apprentice. That leaves you free to make them any level you want. I'd probably tie it to the weapon's bonus -- assume the caster had three levels for every plus the weapon has, assuming it has any, or something along those lines.

For no reason other than curiosity, which version of the books are you using?

Steve

atpollard January 11th, 2010 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Supplement Four (Post 340628)
3 - Rings default to 12th level magic. Staves default to 8th level magic. Wands default to 6th level magic.

What about a sword?
I've got a sword in my game that can cause Light once per day and Protection From Evil on the weilder once per day. But, I've got to know what leve of magic these spells are cast in order to figure the duration of each spell effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by the angle (Post 340677)
As to swords, you're right, there's no indication. I'd go with one of two things. The default would be level 12, because that's the minimum level needed to cast enchant an item. The rules, however, allow one wizard to cast enchant an item and another to cast the actual spells into the item. It's possible that both light and protection from evil could have been placed on the item by a 1st-level apprentice. That leaves you free to make them any level you want. I'd probably tie it to the weapon's bonus -- assume the caster had three levels for every plus the weapon has, assuming it has any, or something along those lines.

I agree that it is a rules oversight. Although I can't offer an 'official' answer, I can offer another DMs perrogative ... Tie the level of the spell to the level of the swordsman wielding it. While less 'official' than the reasonable solutions from "the angle", I think that it might be more 'fun' (which was always my guiding star as a DM or Player).

the angle January 11th, 2010 01:22 PM

That works, too. An attractive aspect of atpollard's answer is that it leaves the door open for interesting developments down the road. Let's say you tie the sword's magical effectiveness to the character's level but don't tell the players that. They think they have a sword of low power. Then, after the characters have risen a few levels, suddenly the sword seems more powerful. Eventually, it turns out that the sword is a forgotten near-artifact whose power reflects the power of the wielder.

Steve

Supplement Four January 11th, 2010 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atpollard (Post 340751)
I agree that it is a rules oversight. Although I can't offer an 'official' answer, I can offer another DMs perrogative ... Tie the level of the spell to the level of the swordsman wielding it.

This is how I'd pretty much decided to go (unless I'd found an "official" answer). Someone over at Dragonsfoot recomended doing it that way.



Quote:

Originally Posted by the angle (Post 340677)
For no reason other than curiosity, which version of the books are you using?

We're using Second Edition, and I have couple of the '89 printings plus a set of the 95 printings that you revised. I default to your '95 revision.

BlackBat242 January 11th, 2010 11:51 PM

Yes, WaterBob.
;)

Supplement Four January 17th, 2010 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the angle (Post 340677)
Sling bullets: Str bonus applies to all missile weapon damage except: crossbows (never) and bows (unless they're specially made).

Here's one for you, Steve:

Here's a new question about hurled weapons.

-- Attack Bonus --

On page 14 of the PHB, under Missile Attack Adjustment, it says this: Missile Attack Adjustment is used to modify a character's die roll whenever he uses a missile weapon (a bow or thrown weapon). A positive number makes it easier for the character to hit with a missile, while a negative number makes it harder.

On page 90 of the PHB, under Modifiers to the Attack Roll, it says this: A character's Strength modifier can modify the die roll, altering both the chance to hit and the damage caused. This modifier is always applied to melees and attacks with hurled missile weapons (a spear or an axe).

On page 99 of the PHB, under Missile Weapons in Combat, it says this: Missile weapons are divided into two general categories. The first includes all standard, direct-fire, single-target missiles--slings, arrows, quarrels, spears, throwing axes and the like.


Given the rules above, is it correct to say that a character with STR 17 and 16, using a sling to cast a stone at a Medium sized target at Short Range, is +2 attack (+1 for STR and +1 for DEX), and if he hits will do 1d4+2 (1d4+1 normal bullet damage with +1 damage due to STR)?

In other words, if I'm reading the above correctly, when using a sling, the character gets to use his STR attack bonus AND his DEX missile adjustment.

This is correct, yes?

the angle January 17th, 2010 04:34 PM

The note on page 90 is wrong, and for some reason it was never corrected in subsequent printings. Only the Dex mod applies to the attack roll, and the Str mod applies to the damage roll.

Steve

Supplement Four January 18th, 2010 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the angle (Post 341471)
The note on page 90 is wrong, and for some reason it was never corrected in subsequent printings. Only the Dex mod applies to the attack roll, and the Str mod applies to the damage roll.

Thanks for the insight, brother. I really appreciate it (and so do my players!)







EDIT: Steve, new question for you.

The rules allow for a character to move up to half movement and still make a melee attack or missile attack at half ROF.

Is that a single melee attack? Is that an attack routine? Or, is that the full attack?



Here's how I'm reading the rule. Please tell me if I've got it wrong.

If you are a cleric, and you get one attack per round, then you can move up to half your MOVE rate and then attack.

If you are a fighter using a longsword, and you normally get 2 attacks per round, then you can move up to half your MOVE rate and get a single attack.

If you are a fighter using a longsword and a dagger, then you can attack with both weapons.

If you are a monster,and you normally attack routine is claw/claw/bite, then you can move up to half your MOVE rating and still make all three attacks.



It seems to be that you are allowed to move 1/2 MOVE and attack using your normal attack routine (but extra attacks

Is this correct? I'm reading it similar to the notes on multiple attacks during the round.

Or, am I reading that wrong?





2nd EDIT: Another question:

If a character is weilding two weapons (say, a longsword and and a dagger), how do you figure initiative using the Speed Factor modifier?

Do you use both Speed Factors, almost forcing the character to go late in the round?

Example: Longsword is SF 5. Dagger is SF 2. So, a character weilding both weapons would go on an initiative of 1d10 + 7?

Is that correct?

the angle January 18th, 2010 01:23 PM

First, a minor clarification on the attack roll modifiers. Dex modifies the attack roll for ranged weapons only; Str modifies the attack roll for melee attacks, and the damage rolls for both. You probably got that, but it wasn't entirely clear in my note.

Multiple Attacks: I can see how this rule could be interpreted that way, but that's not correct. A character that moves up to half his normal distance retains his full melee capability. If he has multiple attacks, he still gets them all, regardless of whether they come from using two weapons or striking with the same weapon twice as a high-level fighter.

Speed Factors for Dual Weapons: Use the worst of the two speed factors. Don't add them together.

Steve

Supplement Four January 18th, 2010 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the angle (Post 341557)
First, a minor clarification on the attack roll modifiers. Dex modifies the attack roll for ranged weapons only; Str modifies the attack roll for melee attacks, and the damage rolls for both. You probably got that, but it wasn't entirely clear in my note.

It was clear. If I'm using a sling, I use DEX to modify attack and STR to modify damage.

If I'm in melee, using a club, I use STR for both attack and damage.



Quote:

Multiple Attacks: I can see how this rule could be interpreted that way, but that's not correct. A character that moves up to half his normal distance retains his full melee capability. If he has multiple attacks, he still gets them all, regardless of whether they come from using two weapons or striking with the same weapon twice as a high-level fighter.
Cool. Thanks, man!


Quote:

Speed Factors for Dual Weapons: Use the worst of the two speed factors. Don't add them together.
That was going to be my house rule if I didn't hear back from you. Looks like we're on the same page. :)

Thanks again, for your answers!


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